Shopping for a used LEAF

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Leafman7

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Messages
18
Location
Great Barrington, MA
Hi, I'm shopping for a used Leaf in the $13-16K range. So much info about batteries in particular has me a little overwhelmed. Leftie Biker's Used Leaf guide is really fantastic, but I'm still not sure what the best model year would be for my wife and I.

We will use the Leaf as a second car. If we get 30-40 miles in the cold winters here (western Mass) that'll be plenty. Seriously local driving for us. And in a couple years we'll replace our 2010 Prius with a longer range EV.

So since range isn't the prikme issue, it seems a 2015-2017 year is going to get the job done. But is there a year in that range that's better re vitality/endurance issues?

It seems like every year there were some kind of problems with the batteries. I just can't suss out which year's problem is the one we most want to avoid.

Thanks much for any feedback!
Jim
 
Leafman7 said:
Hi, I'm shopping for a used Leaf in the $13-16K range. So much info about batteries in particular has me a little overwhelmed. Leftie Biker's Used Leaf guide is really fantastic, but I'm still not sure what the best model year would be for my wife and I.

We will use the Leaf as a second car. If we get 30-40 miles in the cold winters here (western Mass) that'll be plenty. Seriously local driving for us. And in a couple years we'll replace our 2010 Prius with a longer range EV.

So since range isn't the prikme issue, it seems a 2015-2017 year is going to get the job done. But is there a year in that range that's better re vitality/endurance issues?

It seems like every year there were some kind of problems with the batteries. I just can't suss out which year's problem is the one we most want to avoid.

Thanks much for any feedback!
Jim

What's the local weather like in your area? If it's hot and humid like the southwest, then a 2016-2017 with the original 30kwh pack would be best, since you can kill the battery and get a replacement 40kwh pack under warranty.

If it's cooler and mild like Seattle, then you'll probably be fine with a 2015, which only has a 24kwh pack. Edit: because you might not be able to kill the 30kwh pack before the warranty expires.

Smaller battery pack size translates to shorter range.
 
Thanks for that: I live in western Mass, so cold winters/warm to hot and humid summers.
the key for the warranty for 2016 or 2017 is 8 years from date of mfg, correct? So if I understood LeftieBiker right, I'd look for a 2016-2017 with a 30kw (Vin number "B") battery that is ready to croak to 8 bars before the warranty expires in 2022-2023 and I'd be in line for a 40kwh replacement.
Does that sound right?
 
Right. 30kWh (and 40kWh and 62kWh) batteries get the 8 year/ 100k mile warranty. 24kWh batteries are almost all out of warranty or soon will be. If you're going to try to get a replacement battery you need to search carefully for a car that has lost some bars and has had the battery firmware update. Not all 30kWh packs are bad and there is no guarantee they will all be replaced.

You might also consider getting a new Leaf. The batteries seem to get better all the time and if you can qualify for the tax credits or if your state or utility offer rebates buying new can be cheaper than used.
 
The warranty is applied by pack size, not date of manufacture. ALL 30kwh packs have the longer warranty, and NONE of the 24kwh packs have it. (The exception to the latter would be a 2015 Leaf with the Nissan Gold Preferred extended warranty. That supposedly - still untested - extends the battery capacity warranty to 2025.)

So since range isn't the prime issue, it seems a 2015-2017 year is going to get the job done. But is there a year in that range that's better re vitality/endurance issues?

It seems like every year there were some kind of problems with the batteries. I just can't suss out which year's problem is the one we most want to avoid.

Look for either a 2015-2016 Leaf with the 24kwh "Lizard" pack (it is found on early 2016 S trim Leafs) or a 2017 30kwh Leaf that has had the pack replaced under warranty with a 40kwh pack, OR a 2017 30kwh Leaf that has had the BMS upgrade more than 6 months ago, and is still showing 11 or 12 capacity bars. Easy Peasy! ;)
 
Thank you goldbrick and LeftieBiker, that fills in the remaining blanks.
I'd buy a new or newer used but I don't have much of a tax liability (or budget right now) or I'd for sure go that route.
Appreciate you helping this noob out.
 
You might be able to find a 2018 at the top of that price range. For sure you should find some decent 30kwh 2016s and 2017s. I wouldn't bother with an older 24kwh if you're comfortable in that price range.

I bought a 2017 last Sept. The battery has held up very well (I think we've only lost about 1% SOH). In your climate it's unlikely you'll really degrade quickly, so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to get a car to warranty and get the 40kwh battery replacement.

Really getting LeafSpy (even the free version) and reading SOH on the batteries is the most critical thing. As most dealers/sellers (even some Nissan dealers) really have minimal info about the battery. They're still trying to sell these cars like they're gas engines, thinking mileage is the most critical factor.
So for sure I would recommend running LeafSpy on any car you're interested in.
 
Thanks Driver8, appreciate your take.
I've got a couple dealers pitching lease of a '22 SV Plus. I'm still studying the ins and outs of leases vs buying used but I'm sure tempted.
I have found a '17 S w/50K miles, a 30Kwh motor, $13K. Off a lease, was sold as CPO to 2nd owner who had it for 11K then sold it. No accidents. I figure if it's got another 50K on the battery (which has 11 bars showing on the dash, and 90 mi range in Eco) then for the minimum we'd be driving it (tops maybe 5K/year) we've got a car that could last another 10 years.
That's the mental teeter totter I'm on right now: go for a 2 year lease with small mo payment but a 5K down, or just buy the 2017 and get bigger range EV under $30K in 2024/5.
thanks again
Jim
 
Thanks DaveinOlyWA, yeah, prices are pretty whack now.
Following Leftie’s primer on the first page of this thread, 2018 has some problems so I’m staying away and can’t make the jump to a 2019 budget wise so the 17 looks pretty good (once I do the OBD to verify the software update, although at 11 bars and 50K that’s looking pretty good.
 
goldbrick said:
24kWh batteries are almost all out of warranty or soon will be.
Yeah my warranty runs out this November, times up.
However it doesn't really matter there is little to no stock of replacement 24kWh batteries at Nissan. Unless you can get a 3rd party upgraded pack I would steer clear of any 24kWh LEAF's all together.
Not sure how the stock of 30 kWh packs is but they will be next to run out. If I was looking for used I'd look for a 40kWh or 62kWh LEAF.
 
30kwh packs are now being replaced by 40kwh packs under warranty. It should be possible to do the same with 24kwh cars, should any need a warranty replacement.
 
LeftieBiker said:
30kwh packs are now being replaced by 40kwh packs under warranty. It should be possible to do the same with 24kwh cars, should any need a warranty replacement.
Source?
Having done a 24 kWh->40 kWh pack upgrade (myself), I'm not so sure Nissan will perform the CAN bus translation/conversion required to make it work. Which leads me to believe they will either:
1) continue to keep a (small) stock of 24 kWh packs for warranty purposes, or
2) abandon Gen1 Leaf pack upgrades alltogether (much as they have abandoned TCU 4G upgrades)
 
Source for which? Someone posted, a while back, a statement from Nissan that the 30kwh warranty replacement packs will now be 40kwh. The other part was me speculating. I'm not sure I understand why you are saying that Nissan wouldn't do the 40-24 swap. They don't seem to have trouble with CAN issues now...
 
Stanton said:
LeftieBiker said:
30kwh packs are now being replaced by 40kwh packs under warranty. It should be possible to do the same with 24kwh cars, should any need a warranty replacement.
Source?
Having done a 24 kWh->40 kWh pack upgrade (myself), I'm not so sure Nissan will perform the CAN bus translation/conversion required to make it work. Which leads me to believe they will either:
1) continue to keep a (small) stock of 24 kWh packs for warranty purposes, or
2) abandon Gen1 Leaf pack upgrades alltogether (much as they have abandoned TCU 4G upgrades)
Based on news reports I have read it seems Nissan is abandoning early 24kWH LEAF's
https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic/nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle-new-battery-1.5769998
 
LeftieBiker said:
I'm not sure I understand why you are saying that Nissan wouldn't do the 40-24 swap.
Because it has never been done by Nissan, nor has Nissan ever hinted at being willing to do that swap.
I suppose things could change in the future but for now the answer is a gigantic NO

Since the 30 kWh LEAFs *are* upgradeable (warranty or not) via Nissan to a 40 kWh pack, and they have the 8 yr/100k mile warranty instead of 5/60 in the 24 kWh LEAFs, the 30 kWh LEAFs have a lot more embedded value. How *much* more embedded value is a tricky question. I would say a good $3 k - $5k, all else being equal since I estimate that the larger battery LEAF will be usable for the OP for at least 3 years longer than the smaller battery LEAF, and if he is lucky, a lot longer.

That said, finding that 30 kWh LEAF at a decent price is hard. It pretty much comes down to a seller who does not know what they have.
 
Stanton said:
Having done a 24 kWh->40 kWh pack upgrade (myself), I'm not so sure Nissan will perform the CAN bus translation/conversion required to make it work. Which leads me to believe they will either:
2) abandon Gen1 Leaf pack upgrades alltogether (much as they have abandoned TCU 4G upgrades)
Looks this way to me. Nissan will not say 'No', they will just attach a price tag no one will accept.
 
After way too much obsessing (for a month, jeez!) on balancing desire for all the cool Leaf tech things I wanted with the wife’s desire for a very local, much more affordable Leaf to be used as car no 2 ( very limited range needed for it), we still had to drive an hour and a half south from MA into Connecticut to see a couple viable prospects.
One was a pretty Robin’s egg blue 2012 SV/L model with a really clean, light gray interior. 30K miles. Only $7800 but — only seven total SOH bars out of 12 on the battery and showing a range, at 55° outside temperature and 9 fuel capacity bars, of just 37 miles.
Not wanting to go down the rabbit hole to get a refurbished battery put into it, (and knowing I couldn’t even drive it home without two charging stops!) we went and looked at another dealer’s Leaf nearby.
That was also a very nice looking car: white, 2016 S, one owner, bought off a lease by the same owner; the interior was very very clean, 40,000 miles but it looked like 15000.
It had 12 SOH bars, but a range of around 70 to 75 miles. Also 24kwh batt. This was also at 57° outside temp.
We drove it and it was solid, like flying a P 51 Mustang fighter plane (and yes, I have) - not a rattle, not a squeak or squiggle. Very tight steering. Perfect for my wife and she loved driving it. End of story. We decided on that one.
And given this inflated market, we’re still paying $12,000 for it. Cash! Kwazy. But that’s the market. I’d studied the options for weeks. Searched with a500 Mike radius. Not much there there. Shocking that this like a good deal, and we really liked the dealer, Shaker Hyundai in Waterbury, CT.
I’d been pushing for a 2018-19 SV but with taxes etc out the door it was looking like $22K+. That’s nuts! Unhappy wife scenario. Unhappy wallet for that matter, I had almost talked her into a lease on a 2022 instead. Would have cost $13,000 over 3 years, and no car at the end. But she said as a second car that was a bit of overkill and I had to agree. We don’t have a need for the fed $7500 tax rebate either so a purchase and big mo. payments was out too.
But I have set myself up for a winning argument before the judge and jury when it’s time for closing arguments about a new EV around Fall of 2023.
“In conclusion your honor and lady and gentlewoman of the jury, you must deliver a verdict of new car with all the bells and whistles in 2024. The prosecution rests.“
It’s all about the long game.
And as they say, and they know what they’re talking about in this case, “Happy wife, happy life.“
She’ll be driving it 90% of the time once I get over my fantasy thrill trips.

ie, “Hey honey let’s have Mexican tonight, I’ll call it in, I’ll go get it in the Leaf, no problem honey, happy to help, you just take a break on the cooking tonight, you look kinda tired and I’ll do the dishes, oh and after dinner I’ll take the Leaf and go get dish soap because we’re out, no problem dear of dears, love of loves, heart of hearts, dove of doves!!”

And in a year or two I’ll be looking at whatever longer range EV is available for our replacement of our last-ever ICE car which is a 2010 Prius. We’ve had it since it was new, it’s been a great car, but I’ve been putting money into it the last three years or so and don’t wanna put no more into it.
And rather than wait for a hoped-for drop in used Leaf prices maybe over Christmas or early next year, we’ve got a Leaf now and can adapt to the realities and vagaries of driving a CHadeMo chariot. We need so very little range here in our country town most days, we can charge it at the house and it’s no big deal.
I will probably install a lvl 2 home charging port here in the next year with the capacity for adapting to whatever port I may need when I buy the new EV.
My neighbor across the street with a new Prius haunts the local food co-op because there’s a free lvl 2 charger there. He’ll probably share costs of my charger install and use.
Thank you all for your advice along the way. Before I couldn’t speak Leaf owner. Now I are one.
 
There are no 24 kwh packs eligible for anything other than a small group still under the defects warranty so an upgrade thru other means is NOT going to happen. Nissan has made it quite clear they are not in the business of extending used vehicles.
 
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