While chademo is looking bleak long term, it's still growing almost as fast as ccs right now

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DougWantsALeaf

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[MOD: split from https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32555&p=614685#p614608]

While chademo is looking bleak long term, it's still growing almost as fast as ccs right now.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/07/10000-workplace-ev-chargers-now-in-usa-boom-in-2021/

Tesla 5% growth
Ccs 10.2% growth
Chademl 9% growth

It looks like we are not yet at peak Chademo. In fact, Tesla has opened up sales of the Chademo connector again.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
While chademo is looking bleak long term, it's still growing almost as fast as ccs right now.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/07/10000-workplace-ev-chargers-now-in-usa-boom-in-2021/

Tesla 5% growth
Ccs 10.2% growth
CHAdeMO 9% growth

It looks like we are not yet at peak Chademo. In fact, Tesla has opened up sales of the Chademo connector again.
Over the 5 quarters presented, Tesla grew 43% and about 8,000 plugs while CHAdeMO grew 56% and about 2,250 plugs. CCS grew 79% and about 5,000 plugs

I was unable to find CHAdeMO in the Tesla store
 
I've only seen Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter in "stores" outside the US. That also means that unless they're for Tesla's proprietary connector used in the US, Canada, Japan and South Korea, it's the wrong one (wrong plug). The US-market Tesla CHAdeMO adapter was quietly pulled from their US shop awhile ago w/o any explanation that I'm aware of.

https://shop.tesla.com/en_au/product/chademo-adapter - AU, I forget which Tesla inlet is used there
https://shop.tesla.com/en_gb/product/chademo-adapter - GB - almost for sure a different inlet than the US

The pics for the above are likely the wrong stock photos.

Update: AU is likely not the same as the US given https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-charge-ports-plugs-from-china-north-america-and-europe-compared-for-models-s-x-3-y.246571/ (I looked over this awhile ago and it looked correct) and https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/charging-equipment-of-the-world-map.248218/.
 
I stand corrected, it's gone again. There was some hubbub a couple weeks ago about it, and poof gone. Wonder if it was just a small shipment.

Now if they could just reverse the damn thing and a locking mechanism, I would be happy to buy Tesla power. Even at a premium on trips.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Now if they could just reverse the damn thing and a locking mechanism, I would be happy to buy Tesla power. Even at a premium on trips.
It would be the ultimate middle finger to CCS if they did. Imagine a bunch of Leaf + Tesla owners at a QC station having a good time while all the Bolt and Ariya owners driving by shaking their fist into the air in anger. :lol:
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Now if they could just reverse the damn thing and a locking mechanism, I would be happy to buy Tesla power. Even at a premium on trips.
Talk to Nissan. Maybe they will be more attentive than usual :lol:

As for Tesla and its customer base, they don't want slow charging EVs clogging up the Supercharger network. Remember, part of the reason a Tesla is more expensive is the superlative fast charging. Part of the reason your LEAF was cheap was the crappy fast charging. No free lunches here -- you get what you paid for.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/07/10000-workplace-ev-chargers-now-in-usa-boom-in-2021/

Tesla 5% growth
Ccs 10.2% growth
Chademl 9% growth
This is the chart you are cherry picking those numbers from.
US-EV-Charging-Report-7.png


The actual report by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory this data comes from is https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80684.pdf
 
jlv said:
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/07/10000-workplace-ev-chargers-now-in-usa-boom-in-2021/
The actual report by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory this data comes from is https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80684.pdf
I am not at all convinced that the AFDC is counting correctly.
E.g., https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/station/122651 is the EA station I am familiar with in Albuquerque. The count of 10 ports may be wrong -- IIRC there are eight; but there definitely is only ONE CHAdeMO connector. That distinction is not noted on the station summary, and although I filtered for CHAdeMO only, AFDC says there are 10 CHAdeMO ports. I'm willing to bet that CHAdeMO is being over-counted at every location where only a fraction of the ports have a CHAdeMO connector.

I think it is fair to say that many of the new, non-Tesla DC charging locations have at least one CHAdeMO connector. The data after that is suspect. Put another way, about 1/2 of the new DCFC locations have a CHAdeMO presence, however minor it may be.
 
Most of the non Tesla (meant to say EA), non-dealership, non Volta DC stations are at a one to one ratio as that is the common set up.

I think that will continue through at least next year and maybe into 23 bolstering Chademo for at least 2 more years. After that, short of a new standard or something else crazy, guessing Chademo flatlines, then declines.

Selfishly, where I need to travel with the Leaf (Kansas, Baltimore, Wisconsin) infra from IL for Chademo is still going up, not down.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Most of the non Tesla, non-dealership, non Volta DC stations are at a one to one ratio as that is the common set up.

That is most definitely NOT true for EA.
 
I'm not entirely surprised by this. Anecdotally, of the QC stations in the Quad Cities where I'm at - all but one of the stations added in the past couple years have been a 1:1 ratio of CCS to Chademo. I think whoever mentioned that Chade

mo will flatline and then decline is probably spot on. Right now with a bunch of the 1st Gen Leafs still being mid lifecycle - or the oldest ones beginning to be at the end of their lifecycle and what I'm assuming are very modest sales of newer Leafs still happening - I think Chademo will probably stick around for at least the next 10 years or until charging adapters become widespread items.
 
SageBrush said:
jlv said:
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/07/10000-workplace-ev-chargers-now-in-usa-boom-in-2021/
The actual report by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory this data comes from is https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80684.pdf
I am not at all convinced that the AFDC is counting correctly.
E.g., https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/station/122651 is the EA station I am familiar with in Albuquerque. The count of 10 ports may be wrong -- IIRC there are eight; but there definitely is only ONE CHAdeMO connector. That distinction is not noted on the station summary, and although I filtered for CHAdeMO only, AFDC says there are 10 CHAdeMO ports. I'm willing to bet that CHAdeMO is being over-counted at every location where only a fraction of the ports have a CHAdeMO connector.

I think it is fair to say that many of the new, non-Tesla DC charging locations have at least one CHAdeMO connector. The data after that is suspect.
Wow. I actually might be in agreement with you. It's possible the counting of CHadeMO at EA sites is wrong, as I also filtered by CHAdeMO and got the same EVSE port count vs. if I choose DC fast and all connectors.

I know for certain these sites each only have 1 handle CHAdeMO vs. many more CCS handles:
https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/station/190734
https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/station/163414
https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/station/154188
https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/station/152120 (at https://www.plugshare.com/location/198205). 15 CCS handles vs. 1 CHAdeMo sounds right.

I've charged my Bolt at all of the above before.

If you click on AFDC's ? for EVSE ports, they define ports vs. connectors. Well, in the case of the Gilroy location, I guess the correct "port" count should be 1 for CHAdeMO and 8 for CCS. They don't list connectors, but if they did, it should be 1 vs. 15. It looks like AFDC is assuming that every station has a 1:1 ratio of the CHAdeMO vs. CCS.
 
cwerdna said:
It looks like AFDC is assuming that every station has a 1:1 ratio of the CHAdeMO vs. CCS.
I don't think AFDC is assuming anything. The center queries each network for information. Either the information retrieved is wrong, or it is being parsed incorrectly. There has been a long standing confusion over ports and connectors; this is just more of the same. And of course it does not help that each network has its own database, API, and quirks of counting and reporting. Heck, the networks cannot even agree on basic terms. One network's 'station' is another network's location and it gets worse from there.
 
https://www.evgo.com/press-release/nissan-and-evgo-expand-charging-network-with-200-new-ev-fast-chargers/

From the looks of it, as of last August EVGo was still adding Chademo connectors due to their partnership with Nissan.
 
As far as I can tell, for the US, the only major non-Tesla DC FC provider that is openly hostile to CHAdeMO is Electrify America.

No other major public DC FC provider (that supports both CCS and CHAdeMO) in the US yet across most of their sites does this 1 CHAdeMO (soon to be 0) vs. many CCS nonsense.
 
cwerdna said:
As far as I can tell, for the US, the only major non-Tesla DC FC provider that is openly hostile to CHAdeMO is Electrify America.

No other major public DC FC provider (that supports both CCS and CHAdeMO) in the US yet across most of their sites does this 1 CHAdeMO (soon to be 0) vs. many CCS nonsense.

I suppose in a way it makes sense, they're a wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen doing this as part of their Dieselgate thing. They don't really have anything to gain by adding Chademo plugs and can save a few bucks by not having to order them in addition to CCS plugs.
 
Yes. Unfortunately, EA wasn't forced to be standards neutral on their deployments. I've pointed out VW's stacking the deck w/EA a bunch of times before:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32040&p=601040&hilit=business+electrify#p601040
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=610525#p610525
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32390&p=607623&hilit=business+electrify#p607623
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=610578#p610578 was true when I posted it.
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=610597#p610597 was a rebuttal about gen 1 and 2 Smart ForTwo ED in the US.
 
cwerdna said:
Yes. Unfortunately, EA wasn't forced to be standards neutral on their deployments.
I'm not sure what that means. EA wrote the rules, which included only supporting 'open standard' plugs. The token CHAdeMO was included to rationalize keeping Tesla out.

Your advocacy for even number of CHAdeMO and CCS plugs is irrational, albeit expected on a LEAF user group.
 
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