Comparison: Why I Chose a Nissan Leaf Plus over a Tesla Model 3

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AlexDarcy

Member
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Dec 26, 2021
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After a week of research, I bought a new 2022 Leaf instead of a Tesla Model 3. Tesla Model 3 is a beautiful car, and I'm sure I would have been happy to get it, but here are the reasons why I chose to get a Leaf instead in December of 2021. If you found this forum because you are pondering the same question, I hope this will be useful as you decide which car is better for you. (Apologies in advance if any of my facts are wrong, e.g., vertical trunk space, warranty details, etc.)


LEAF BENEFITS:
Reasonable sticker price despite the pandemic supply chain inflation.
Immediate availability at many dealerships.
$7500 tax rebate, unlike Tesla.
8-year/100k-mile battery warranty, same as Tesla's.
5-year/60k-mile EV system and powertrain warranty, better than Tesla's.
Less in-cabin road and wind noise than the Tesla 3 (search YouTube).
Nissan build quality versus Tesla, e.g., Tesla door handles.
Vertical trunk space better than Tesla's, possibly total volume too.
charger plug at the front is more convenient than at the back.
Nissan dealerships are very common nationwide in the USA for any repairs or parts.
Regenerative braking might be more efficient than Tesla's, but this is uncertain.
Comes with floormats (saves $100, less annoying).
Comes with NEMA 14-50 electrical adapter (saves $35, less annoying).
LeafSpy Pro phone app is useful and fun (costs $15, plus $30 for the OBDII module).


LEAF NEGATIVES:
Batteries are not liquid-cooled like on the Tesla.
Obsolete CHAdeMO charger, not CCS or Tesla charger.
Dashboard is not as advanced or stylish as Tesla's.
Forward driving pedestrian warning noise is REALLY annoying; don't know about Tesla's.
Back seat leg room is OK for children, but cramped for adults; Tesla looks better.
Back seat headroom is not good for tall people; Tesla looks better.
Nissan Connect app works OK, but is not fast; cannot change charge scheduling.
No over-the-air software updates like on the Tesla, must go to dealer.
Back seats don't fold completely flat like on Tesla, only flat-ish.
No spare tire, like on Tesla (both have repair kits).
Storage space for small sundries around driver is OK, not great; Tesla looks better.
No option to limit max charge to 80% anymore, must adjust via charger scheduling.


CHAdeMO:
Rapid charging slightly damages batteries on any EV today, especially in hot weather. If you will charge 99% of the time at home at night, then 240V charging is better for battery life on both the Leaf and the Tesla. If you need to drive cross-country, then the Tesla is better for its fast-charging stations. The Leaf's CHAdeMO is obsolete and CHAdeMO charging stations will be very difficult to find in five years.

If your electric utility offers a reduced rate for evenings, then 240V charging at home is cheaper than using commercial rapid charging stations. My utility company has a "Free Nights and Weekends" plan that makes scheduled nighttime charging free (the higher weekday rate is offset by the free weekend days, then free EV charging at night). Your utility company may have a similar plan. You don't need to purchase a third-party EVSE to schedule your charging, it is built into the Leaf dashboard already.


BATTERY:
2014 and later Leaf batteries use a different internal design and chemistry (Nickel + Cobalt + Manganese) than the older batteries. Beware of old YouTube videos that warn about "the" Leaf battery.

Lack of liquid cooling is a big issue in hot climates. If you commute at highway speeds in hot climates, park in the sun all day at work, want to use rapid charging, and habitually use maximum acceleration, then a Tesla will be better for battery life because of its thermal management system.

With the 8-year/100k-mile battery warranty on the Leaf, I personally am betting that the cost of a replacement battery in 8 years, if necessary, will be much lower than today. Battery technology is rapidly advancing and prices are falling (I don't know what the future will bring, of course). Hopefully this will be true for Teslas too. There are aftermarket options to replace the battery on a Leaf from non-Nissan companies. Does Tesla allow third-party battery replacement or repair? I don't know.

For the Nissan battery warranty, remember than the Leaf records its operational details to local storage that a Nissan technician can retrieve. The battery warranty is voided if you 1) expose the Lear to ambient temperatures above 120F/49C for over 24 hours, 2) store the Leaf in temperatures below -13F/-25C for over seven days, 3) leave your vehicle for over 14 days where the battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge, or 4) do not get a battery quality report every year by a Nissan-approved technician. It seems that Nissan has not been a stickler for the annual quality reports for battery warranty repairs, but this verbiage comes straight from the Nissan warranty booklet. If the LeafSpy app on your phone shows battery problems, then take the Leaf to a dealership for an official battery diagnostic report, or, if your favorite auto shop is capable, have the battery check done at the same time as your annual state inspection.

Here is a reliable and impartial source of information about batteries:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries


BUILD QUALITY:
A major reason I chose the Leaf was build quality. Nissan has decades of experience building millions of cars worldwide and a decade of experience with prior Leaf models. (I have a 1998 Nissan Altima and it just keeps on running and running and running...) Tesla is the new kid on the block with a small fraction of that manufacturing record. The Nissan reputation for reliability and build quality is solid, even if it's not the best. Pre-2014 Leaf models certainly had battery problems, but what about the rest of the car?

Here are the Consumer Reports and JD Powers articles that influenced my decision in favor of the Leaf:

"Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" (19.Nov.2021)
https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/

"Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant J.D. Power permission to survey its owners..." (18.Feb.2021)
Tesla was fourth from the bottom for dependability; only Jaguar, Alpha and Land Rover were worse.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

"Nissan LEAF Awarded In 2020 J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study" in the compact car category (15.Feb.2020)
https://insideevs.com/news/398848/nissan-leaf-award-vehicle-dependability-study/


DISTANCE TO DEALERSHIP:
While the Tesla is more sporty and stylish, those considerations kind of fade after a year, especially if you have to drive to a distant Tesla Service Center to fix a problem and wait in the lobby or at a hotel. My Nissan dealership is only 6 miles away if I need a repair, so I could take a Lyft/Uber back home if necessary. There are 49 Nissan dealerships in Pennsylvania, for example, but only 3 in the state for Tesla; there are 78 Nissan dealerships in Texas, but only 12 for Tesla.

Here is where you can check your state to see how far the drive will be when something inevitably needs fixing:

https://www.nissanusa.com/nissandealers/location/

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/services/United%20States

There is also the cost of replacement parts and service work. Tesla owners complain about these things online. It seems that parts and labor for Nissans are less expensive than for Teslas, but I don't have any proof of this, I'm just going on what some Tesla owners say in YouTube videos. As a test, call a Nissan dealership and ask how much it would cost to, say, replace a door window, then call a Tesla service center and ask the same. In large cities, Nissan dealerships compete with each other, not just with other manufacturers. If there is only one Tesla center within a 100 miles of your home, you are more at their mercy.


ROAD NOISE:
Another big issue for me was road noise (I have tinnitus) and there are too many negative YouTube videos by the Tesla owners themselves about Model 3 road noise:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+road+noise+wind+noise


IMMEDIATE AVAILABILITY AND ZERO INTEREST FINANCING:
I don't know what kind of financing Tesla offers, but I got zero percent interest from Nissan for 6 years and drove the Leaf off the lot that afternoon, no waiting 4-9 months. Taking into account the $7500 tax rebate, rising inflation (versus my fixed payments), the lower sticker price of the Leaf, the lower expected maintenance costs/hassles versus the Tesla, and my plan to invest the $10,000+ I'm not paying extra for the Tesla, then the Leaf was just too good overall. (I'm a fanboy of financial independence, not cars.)


PRICE NEGOTIATIONS:
If car price is not a major concern, then this whole discussion is probably irrelevant to you. You can simply trade up every few years to whatever catches your fancy despite the trade-in losses.

When you negotiate the final price for a Leaf, talk about the "obsolete CHAdeMO charger" and "non-liquid cooled battery" with the sales manager to get a better price. Mention how the Nissan Ariya has abandoned CHAdeMO in favor of CCS and how the Ariya's dashboard looks much nicer. Once the pandemic inflation has subsided and the Nissan Ariya is widely available, you should be able to negotiate pretty aggressively.

Remember, no matter what you buy today, it won't be considered "cool" or "cutting edge" in a few years, there will always be something new and shiny to be jealous of, so maybe today it's better to not get suckered in or seduced. (Do you regret spending $1200 for a phone?) And if the streets are going to be packed with Tesla Model 3's with the same few paint colors in a couple years, perhaps you'll think about that missing $10,000 you could have spent on something else. The big question is whether you plan to drive cross-country and will need a Tesla (or CCS) rapid charging port, since CHAdeMO is obsolete.


THIS FORUM
This forum helped me make a decision regarding Leaf vs. Tesla (thank you!) so that's why I'm posting the above, to help others who find this site as they consider their options too. At first I just assumed I'd get a Tesla, until I thought about it more. If you get a Tesla, great, enjoy it! I'm very happy with my Leaf. Hopefully others in this forum can add useful things to think about for making an informed choice, all the things I've overlooked or got wrong.
 
Good job. The title isn't making it a hit with the search engine, though, as this site's Search function sucks. If you're willing, I'd like to try a few changes to just the title, so I can see if I can come up with a title that will hit with a title-specific search. Or if you prefer, you can do it. The first version I'd try is "Comparison: Why I Chose a Nissan Leaf over A Tesla Model 3". If you bought a Leaf Plus, then add "Plus" to it. Then, when using the Search function, specify "Titles Only" by checking that box.
 
If you want to disable the forward driving pedestrian warning system, aka VSP, you can do that with LeafSpy Pro and a compatible OBD2 dongle.
 
Thanks AlexDarcy for posting up a your experience with choosing a Leaf. It's always good to read the experiences one has when deciding on what EV to purchase without getting too caught up in the culture of the EV.

I try to treat my EV like a "car" and not an "experience". It gets me from point A to point B, it helps me do work, and all it ask in return is a plug and some windshield wiper fluid on occasion. I do enjoy my Leaf for what it is, an affordable EV that has a few short-comings compared to other EV manufacturers but nothing I can't work with and enjoy every time I take a ride in it. My kids have basically "grown up" around the Leaf as the family car and driving an electric car is nothing special to them like it was to me many years ago. :D

I may not be the typical Leaf driver since I usually make a lot of modifications to the Leaf(s) in our family, but it has been a great experience for me and I've never had to worry about the reliability of my current or past Leaf vehicles. I still have some friends that like to tease me about driving an EV, but for someone who does all their own car maintenance, *not* having to do *regular* maintenance is a great way to free up time and money to do other things. ;)
 
AlexDarcy said:
...
BATTERY:
...
With the 8-year/100k-mile battery warranty on the Leaf, I personally am betting that the cost of a replacement battery in 8 years, if necessary, will be much lower than today.
...
There are aftermarket options to replace the battery on a Leaf from non-Nissan companies.

That's a interesting bet considering that the battery that fits your car may not be available in 8 years.

i'm not aware of any viable aftermarket options such as you mention.
 
nlspace said:
That's a interesting bet considering that the battery that fits your car may not be available in 8 years.
i'm not aware of any viable aftermarket options such as you mention.

Fingers crossed, but I hope the battery shell can be opened and the cells replaced with electrically equivalent ones that have a better chemistry, but with the same voltage and amperage. If energy density continues to increase, the new cells could be smaller to get the same 62 kWh, similar to DIY-ers today making their own solar battery packs. Fingers crossed...

There are also battery swaps from other Leafs that have been in minor collisions.

Here are a few companies that do Leaf battery swaps, but only the first one is in the US, and they're not cheap:

https://evridesllc.com/battery-upgrade-service/

https://evsenhanced.com/aftermarket-battery/

https://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/

For repacks with alternative cells with different chemistries, I don't think they exist yet. Here is a non-hype video about the work to find solid state batteries with higher energy densities, including the problems and delays:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PyXQ0UXk9w
 
Disclaimer

This attached video has nothing to do with the realities, impressions, facts, opinions, alternative realities of the subject matter, but everything to do with pure entertainment - if you are a little "twisted" :mrgreen:
My Daughter has a Model 3 and she is very satisfied. I have the SV+ and it works very well for me - and hopefully soon be the energy supplier of my personal nano-grid. I know both vehicles quite well and feel we both made the best decisions .
Thanks AlexDarcy for taking the time to do your review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9aVzf5fC4
 
AlexDarcy said:
After a week of research, I bought a new 2022 Leaf instead of a Tesla Model 3. Tesla Model 3 is a beautiful car, and I'm sure I would have been happy to get it, but here are the reasons why I chose to get a Leaf instead in December of 2021. If you found this forum because you are pondering the same question, I hope this will be useful as you decide which car is better for you. (Apologies in advance if any of my facts are wrong, e.g., vertical trunk space, warranty details, etc.)


LEAF BENEFITS:
Reasonable sticker price despite the pandemic supply chain inflation.
Immediate availability at many dealerships.
$7500 tax rebate, unlike Tesla.
8-year/100k-mile battery warranty, same as Tesla's.
5-year/60k-mile EV system and powertrain warranty, better than Tesla's.
Less in-cabin road and wind noise than the Tesla 3 (search YouTube).
Nissan build quality versus Tesla, e.g., Tesla door handles.
Vertical trunk space better than Tesla's, possibly total volume too.
charger plug at the front is more convenient than at the back.
Nissan dealerships are very common nationwide in the USA for any repairs or parts.
Regenerative braking might be more efficient than Tesla's, but this is uncertain.
Comes with floormats (saves $100, less annoying).
Comes with NEMA 14-50 electrical adapter (saves $35, less annoying).
LeafSpy Pro phone app is useful and fun (costs $15, plus $30 for the OBDII module).

This looks like a pretty good stab at it for a new owner who has a lot to learn although I only gave it a quick glance. I've bolded those comments in this section I think are debatable or outright wrong. To wit:

* I owned the Tesla Model 3 and it is quiet. Full stop. Formal testing would be needed to compare to a LEAF. Moreover, tyre choice has a large effect on road noise so consumers have a choice regardless of the EV chosen.
* The Tesla door handles that have some reliability issues (related to user mishandling) are not in the Model 3
* Nissan dealerships are hit or miss when it comes to EVs, but mostly miss. And repair costs are eye watering. Tesla has mobile service Rangers that are the epitome of convenience since they come to you, and it would be a rare repair they are unable to handle.
* Tesla regen is up to 60 kW and 70% efficient. The LEAF does not come close.
* The bundled Nissan EVSE is not Amp flexible and does not have pigtails. Cheap, cheap, cheap
* SMT (Scan my Tesla) is markedly superior to LeafSpy in terms of information provided, although I do not remember off-hand if it displays or clears error codes. For the most part, LeafSpy makes up for deficient LEAF displays which are well covered in the Tesla.
 
AlexDarcy said:
IMMEDIATE AVAILABILITY AND ZERO INTEREST FINANCING:
I don't know what kind of financing Tesla offers, but I got zero percent interest from Nissan for 6 years and drove the Leaf off the lot that afternoon, no waiting 4-9 months. Taking into account the $7500 tax rebate, rising inflation (versus my fixed payments), the lower sticker price of the Leaf, the lower expected maintenance costs/hassles versus the Tesla, and my plan to invest the $10,000+ I'm not paying extra for the Tesla, then the Leaf was just too good overall. (I'm a fanboy of financial independence, not cars.)

Great analysis. I agree with almost all of your perspective (not sure about road noise comparison and few other things simply because I have not had the time to review data or personally compare) but for me the ultimate tie breaker was the availability & finances. I could get the LEAF now vs pay more for something I can't get for 6 months. not only that I will get back a total of $9500 over the next couple months in various rebate + tax credits. I have a certain amount of Tesla envy :oops: but it was not large enough to overcome the benefits listed above.

I also tend to treat cars as utility items and think LEAF is a great entry vehicle into the EV class which will get my family used to the way these things operate and learn to make the most out of it before we trade up to something that can get us more for the buck when the market dynamics inevitably change with many more players coming in over next couple years and the dreaded supply chain issues get sorted out.

Till then... LEAF the way!
 
The Leaf is certainly the value proposition. 0% financing and the $7500 makes it at least $10 grand cheaper than a Tesla. Plus, you can actually get a discount off MSRP on a Leaf right now whereas almost every other EV has ADM.

Also, IMO the Leaf has just a lil more rear leg room than a Model 3 and the Leafs large front door that open extra wide make it easy to get in and out of.

The Gamble with the Leaf is depreciation and CHADeMO.
*If the Bidens infrastructure bill includes more CHADeMO fast chargers that adds alot of value to the Leaf.
*If Nissan comes up with a CCS to CHADeMO adapter, that adds a lot of value.
*If Tesla comes up with a Supercharger to CHADeMO adapter, that adds alot of value.
*If Nissan follows thru on their V2H promises, that keeps the Leaf relevant.
 
watchdoc said:
The Leaf is certainly the value proposition. 0% financing and the $7500 makes it at least $10 grand cheaper than a Tesla. Plus, you can actually get a discount off MSRP on a Leaf right now whereas almost every other EV has ADM.

Also, IMO the Leaf has just a lil more rear leg room than a Model 3 and the Leafs large front door that open extra wide make it easy to get in and out of.

The Gamble with the Leaf is depreciation and CHADeMO.
*If the Bidens infrastructure bill includes more CHADeMO fast chargers that adds alot of value to the Leaf.
*If Nissan comes up with a CCS to CHADeMO adapter, that adds a lot of value.
*If Tesla comes up with a Supercharger to CHADeMO adapter, that adds alot of value.
*If Nissan follows thru on their V2H promises, that keeps the Leaf relevant.

I obviously agree that the LEAF is the cheaper of the two (by a not small amount.) Value is a much trickier thing to judge and has a lot of subjectivity involved.

How much is an extra 100 miles of range worth ?
How much is 250 kW DC charging worth ?
How much is better safety worth ?
How much is a much faster car worth ?
How much is much better driving dynamics worth ?
How much is vastly superior telematics and UI/UX worth ?
How much is superior aesthetics worth ?

There are no correct answers here. Each person decides for themselves. I will add this: it is *really* common to find that the people who say that the LEAF/Bolt is every bit of a Tesla that they care about have an ICE in the garage. Those people are not being intellectually honest, they are just rationalizing their purchase of a cheap(er) EV.

This opportunity cost element came up when my wife decided she wanted to swap our minimally depreciated Tesla Model 3 for a Tesla Model Y (you know, women and their CUV/SUV propensity.) That is an $8k price difference I was not finding easy to swallow until I realized that the Model Y could be outfitted with a hitch, thereby letting me sell the LEAF and actually gain significant utility. And since I have wanted to downsize to one car for years, this was a golden opportunity and made the Model Y not only a good value, but an excellent value. For us.
 
The LEAF itself has been V2H capable for a decade. The cost was very high for the necessary equipment which used to be fairly large as well and there was nothing available stateside maybe the Quasar Wallbox would allow it if they ever released their CHAdeMO box. There are uses in Europe as well for V2G. Guess what though both CCS and Tesla are looking at adding that capability. Not sure if it is worth the extra battery cycles but then I suppose much of the country like where I live does not need it often. Main advantage I see is going somewhere else to charge and come back to your home to continue to power the fridge etc. in an extended power outage. Solar and a home battery system still would fill that pretty well.

Aesthetics are a personal feeling, I do not find the shape of Tesla appealing.

Tesla (or any cooled car) do not have so called rapid gate which gets me anytime I need 3 DCFCs in a day and sometimes 2. You can add that to your value proposition ie how much is long distance road trip capability worth. Mind you I find not so many people drive that much in a day. I think in north america and europe the writing is on the wall for CHAdeMO, hopefully enough stations will still be around the useful road trip life of the car to keep it useful, driving within a couple hundred miles in a day can all be done with home or l2 public charging this one comes up with road trips.

Tesla does not allow android auto or apple car play which is laughable from my viewpoint. Having to use a browser to try waze for example is not a superior UX it's lock-in with bad excuses of security. I am aware of the preconditioning of the battery if you navigate to a supercharger and that is neat but no android auto or car play is not nice.

A potential issue with the Ariya is rear cargo room, it may be less than the LEAF.

The LEAF is an good regional car for the money. It is overall a good budget EV, all the more so after the battery recall issues the Bolt ran into. We need sub 30k, preferably 20k EVs to help get the masses over
 
How much is better safety worth ?
How much is a much faster car worth ?

I would argue that with no Eco mode (?) and the Tesla's additional speed, combined with the hyped "Full Self-Driving Mode" the extra safety can be largely canceled by the extra speed and acceleration, plus the false sense of security from "FSD." The exception would be for people who always drive conservatively, and they don't tend to gravitate to Tesla.
 
LeftieBiker said:
How much is better safety worth ?
How much is a much faster car worth ?

I would argue that with no Eco mode (?) and the Tesla's additional speed, combined with the hyped "Full Self-Driving Mode" the extra safety can be largely canceled by the extra speed and acceleration, plus the false sense of security from "FSD." The exception would be for people who always drive conservatively, and they don't tend to gravitate to Tesla.
The last time I saw data, about 20% of Tesla owners bought FSD. Which is too bad, really, since FSD will not exceed the speed limit by more than 5 mph if memory serves, nor will it stomp on the go pedal from a stop. Your reasoning could use some work. I don't speak from any experience here since I have never tried FSD in city driving, only from what I have read.
All Teslas have 3 go-pedal mapping options.

My impression is that young people highly value fast cars and are at risk of using them in unsafe ways. I would not presume the same is true for those middle-aged or older, or those with families.
 
To the Tesla negatives I would add the user interface. Controls that should be operable via switches dials and levers from muscle-memory alone, instead require drilling down to menus and sub-menus then tapping the correct pixels in a moving vehicle. This is even more of a task for older drivers whose visual accomodation from far-to-near and back is slower or nonexistent. Better double-check your bifocals prescription.

And don't get me started on rectangular "steering wheels"! Fortunately that UI abomination has not yet infected all Teslas.

That being said, we intend to add a Model Y to the stable this coming year, joining the LEAF. This will be a replacement for my wife's SUV and it needs to be fully capable of driving any distance at any time with a minimum of concern over charging quirks or infrastructure. I appreciate the positive aspects of a passively-cooled pack, but with current state of the art, a TMS is the way to go if you require both long-range and long-distance capability in the same vehicle. LEAF will remain viable as our local-area machine.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I would argue that with no Eco mode (?) and the Tesla's additional speed, combined with the hyped "Full Self-Driving Mode" the extra safety can be largely canceled by the extra speed and acceleration, plus the false sense of security from "FSD." The exception would be for people who always drive conservatively, and they don't tend to gravitate to Tesla.

Teslas have a "chill mode", which re-maps the accelerator pedal in a manner similar to Eco Mode which I employ in LEAF almost constantly -- not for any putative efficiency but for ease of driving and increased control at maneuvering speeds.

As far as FSD I can't imagine why anyone would pay $10,000 for a function which does not yet exist and probably won't ever do what it says in any meaningful way at any point during the reasonable lifetime of the vehicle.
 
Thanks for reminding me! I too hate the lack of buttons and knobs for some functions. This requires less eyes off the road for simple things. That really bugged me! I have only seen a square streering wheel in pictures I have not tried that yet, I don't think I would care for that either perhaps it has some advantage I cannot imagine at the moment but all I can think of is negatives.
 
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