Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer...

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cdherman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
182
Location
Kansas City, Missouri
I too have been getting intermittent episodes of reduced power output in cold weather under acceleration or high speed. My battery is at 66.5% Was down to 65.3%, but I needed to fast charge to get home the other day, and it bumped back to 67% Lots of variation showing in the cell charges. I am not too savy in understanding much of LeafSpy information.

I've been reading here, and I had been assuming that I was getting close to dropping the 4th bar and thereafter would be getting a new battery. So I ignored the semi-turtle events.

Then yesterday afternoon, 2 bat temp bars, 20 deg F, 68% battery charge, I am doing 65,mph on a slight upward incline. I feel it reduce power and slow some, did not pay much attention to dash initially.

THEN, car loses ALL power. Lights on dash all light up including a check engine light I've not seen before. The nice voice announces I should pull over (still coasting at this point" and set the Parking Brake. I later find that the car has defaulted to Neutral.

Was able to get off the interstate. I failed to take pictures of the various error messages (was getting out of traffic and making a lot of driving decisions). But on the side of the road, I shut down the Leaf and restarted. No changes. Still multiple error lights. Woud not shift into D. Climate control giving no heat (could not hear heat pump). Heated seat interesting still functional.

4.2 Miles from dealer where I originally purchased and AAA member, so 45 minutes later I handed the key fob to the dealer service guy and that was that. Their Leaf technician has weekend off. Will know more on Monday. I did not try to look at things with LeafSpy or my other OBDII diagnostic program. I was freezing, as I had no heat and only was wearing scrubs and light jacket......

I have not read where anyone else was having the cold weather turtle/reduction of power where the vehicle actually finally died. We will see. I will post more when I know more. Perhaps will get my new battery soon.....
 
cdherman said:
Perhaps will get my new battery soon.....
I think so, provided that the battery defect warranty is still in effect.

Too bad you did not grab the error codes via LeafSpy. If still possible, please do.
 
Wow, you described exactly what happened in my 2017 Leaf.
I live near St. Louis.
I too have 9 bars left and was waiting for it to drop to 8.
It started when it got really cold this past week down in the single digits.
The first day it said reduced power mode while I was driving for a few miles on the interstate, then went away a few miles later but I maintained 65 mph.
The next day I drove it, full throttle up a hill and then I watch the power bars slowly go down but I'm not lifting up on the pedal and the acceleration is fluttering.
Then it goes to from around 40% charge to 20% in one minute, I then exit off the interstate for my commute, I watch as the battery actually starts to increase charge as I drive slowly over 5 minutes back up to where it was.
Finally the next day it's about 12 F on the way home, up a hill I give it full throttle and turtle mode then pull over now and it puts it in neutral for me, I coast luckily to a neighborhood.
The screen tells me turn off power and do not drive to avoid permanent damage to the battery.
I set there for about 10 minutes, unplug the 12v to reset it then gingerly drive home very easily the rest of the way with no issue.
I decided to replace the 12v battery today (looked original) and clean up the fair amount of corrosion on the terminals.
When I unplugged the car was at 100% full charge, next day it was at 97%
Test drove and it happened again, monitored with Leaf spy but didn't see a huge variation, DTCs say Cell over Discharge Module6 and Module24 and some other weird messages, this time I was able to turn off for about 5 minutes and start again, the error codes are now there for Nissan to read I hope.
I just wish it would drop to the 8th bar and make this easy.
 
That sounds like one or more bad or weak cells. The voltage sags too much in that/those cell(s), causing the BMS to intervene, then as the cell(s) recover, the voltage climbs and the BMS removes the power restriction. If so, that is covered right now under the battery defect warranty - but you need error codes to prove it.
 
As noted by dang10010, I too was tempted to unhook the 12v battery, but since its still under battery warranty and had a free tow from AAA, and I was not dressed or stalled in a location conducive to disconnecting the 12v, I passed.

I am hoping this will start the process of getting a new battery. I spoke with the dealer yesterday AM, and by the next morning, they were able to power up the car and drive it, with error codes still showing, inside. I am wondering if I have a battery in the pack that is really close to completely dead and it took hours for it to "wake back up" after the heavy discharge of going up a hill at 65 in the cold.
 
Well, dealer called yesterday AM that the 12v battery "didn't have enough CCA" and thus needed replacement. I laughed, and the service guy did actually immediately reply that he did know that a Leaf doesn't crank, but their battery tester gives them good versus bad in CCA so that's got to be replaced first. Since the 12vbattery was installed 6/2016 at factory, I figured it was not worth arguing about and told them to replace. Besides, they charge a $129 diagnostic fee, and if you refuse their "repair" they make you pay the diagnostic fee. If you accept the repair, they waive the fee. So $170 for a new battery. I figured fighting it would cost me $129. So I figure I sort of got a new 12v battery for $41....... Feels better that way.....

The car had a ton of error codes on arrival to the dealer, which they did write down for me, but they felt these were due to low 12v battery. They *may* be right.

They then charged the traction batter over night and test drove today. They could not get any of the errors or turtle events that I was getting. Problem is, in the meantime, since Jan7, Kansas City is roughly 40 deg warmer! Traction batter showing 5 bars temp. So I am not sure if the 12v battery fixed the problem or not. I drove the Leaf hard this afternoon and could not replicate either.

I think they *may* be right. The errors occured under accelleration or incline or high speed. Usually combo of 2 or three of the above. I wonder if the Leaf shuts down the 12v inverter that charges the 12v system, when the traction battery is being heavily burdened? Then, if the 12v battery is reaching the end of its days, the 12v voltage would drop and eventually cause all manner of error codes. That's a possible scenario I think.

But this being Kansas City in January, I will have cold weather again in time. I'll see if I can replicate then and if not, then the dealer was probably correct.....
 
It probably was the 12 volt battery - a weak one is well known for causing myriad error codes that aren't real. As for the turtling, I agree with others that it's the pack temp that matters, not the air temp, so that remains to be seen. I suggest that, to avoid similar recurrences for now, you do whatever you can to keep the pack temp above 0 temp bars on the gauge.
 
Traction battery internal resistance goes up as battery temperature goes down so I suspect you will see the power limitation under heavy load when the ambient temperature drops again for several days. I have never seen the DC-DC converter drop out until the main contactor opens so I strongly doubt that the weak 12V battery was the cause of your reduced power (turtle) events.
 
cdherman said:
...
Since the 12vbattery was installed 6/2016 at factory

And that battery was built even earlier than that, so it could be 6 years old--that is quite a long lifetime in a laef, especially if no maintenance was pulled to check and add water.

With a scan of the pack cell voltages you could get a better feeling whether the problem has been solved or not. Or go make a few wide open throttle acceleration runs to see how well it does--that would trigger a turtle if the pack had a weak cell.

The EV-ECU monitors the voltage of the supply and would throw codes and turtles if your 12V supply were being pulled down by a bad starter battery (e,.g. internal shorting or collapsing cell voltage).

You did good getting a $41 battery... :lol:
 
Ditto, my leaf has a clean bill of health from my Nissan dealer.
They showed me all the codes that all pointed to a bad 12v battery that I already replaced, they had to clear the codes, new Walmart battery tested fine.
I had got it to turtle again after the 12v replacement but it was much colder that day.
They drove it and couldn't get the turtle to pop on, I drove it hard too but it was too warm that day in the 50s neither could I.
I have 90 days or 3000 miles, if it happens again then they'll diagnose again for free.
We'll see what happens again when it gets in the single digits for a few days.
Luckily I have a short commute with the dealer almost right in the middle and a big hill right next to them.
They have a good working Chademo charger for free, I'll not feel the least bit bad using it on occasion after paying the diagnostic fee.
I can't blame the dealer for not being able to do anything, they need a code to show Nissan corporate.
 
Had turtle mode again the other day when it was colder.
No codes stored in the computer, guess I'll have to wait for a full shut down and coasting in neutral.
If I take it easy I can keep it from happening, it'll probably be more challenging when it gets colder again this week.
 
This sounds hauntingly similar to the problem I experienced with my '14 LEAF.
Basically the accelerator pedal goes dead after stopping event, almost into a creep mode.
That was not a true "Turtle Mode", no warning lights, no logged codes, only had this happen in cold conditions.
Sometimes I was able to get the car to respond by shifting between B and D modes, would recover as abruptly as it failed.
That problem was traced to a failing ABS-brake controller part, essentially the car's computer thinks the brake pedal was applied.
It's also 99% of the reason why I got an extended warranty plan... was going to be well over $2K to fix it out of warranty.
 
Made it today but did have a turtle mode on the way home driving 65, 55 and it went away.
In the morning no message and I drove 65 but it had more of a charge.
I only drive 2-3 miles on the interstate so not a huge deal.
I'm keeping it topped off as best I can when its below 20 or so from now on.
 
Since the new 12v battery 2 weeks ago, no more complete loss of power that required towing. I have gotten the sudden "turtle mode" one more time. Its been warmer lately though, and I (as some others) have been keeping my battery nearly fully charged and kind of avoiding fast acceleration etc. I knew or assumed a new HV battery was in my future anyhow, and did not want to experience a tow again.

Today, 4th bar dropped, somewhat unexpected. So hopefully my battery woes will be gone in the next few weeks.
 
cdherman said:
Today, 4th bar dropped, somewhat unexpected. So hopefully my battery woes will be gone in the next few weeks.
That's the ticket!
Let us know how long it takes for them to ship/install the replacement pack (especially if it's a 40 kWh).
 
Sweet, with nearly identical climates I have less than a year left I'm hoping.
Congrats on the 40kWh battery, let everyone know how it goes.
 
To dealer a week ago. Initially, service people at dealer were ignorant as heck. Guy calls me and say that "4 temp bars are OK" even though I had clearly stated that the vehicle had dropped 4 capacity bars.

Then, after another 24 hours of "evaluation and diagnostics" same smart young @ss tells me that I need to drop to 7 bars before warranty kicks in. I tell him he's uninformed (in less polite terms) and request a call from his manager. Sensing I am in for a fight, I just resort to calling Nissan corporate EV complaint line on the spot. They file a complaint and tell me it will be 2-3 business days to evaluate.

Then I get a call from the service manager 45 min later -- "got an email from corporate, you battery will be replaced". I am not sure just what happened behind the scene. Perhaps they were already asking for a warranty replacement before I complained. I should have waited a bit before filing a complaint, but the kid on the phone really pissed me off. In retrospect, he might have just been some red neck pickup driver doing his 'Merican duty to anger a pussy electric car driver.
 
Well, took 5 weeks. Got the call yesterday, picked up this AM. No where on paperwork does it say I got a 40 kwh pack, but range is 150 miles and I drove 33 miles at 71-75 mph and used only 31%, which implies a solid 100 miles of range at that speed. That my 30 kwh battery was never capable of. I'll Leaf Spy it after a couple days/charge cycles and see what it shows.

Interestingly, the young fellow who angered me with his comment that "It needs to be at 7 bars before warranty" no longer works at the dealership. Coincidence? Who knows. Guy today was far better.
 
cdherman said:
I too have been getting intermittent episodes of reduced power output in cold weather under acceleration or high speed. My battery is at 66.5% Was down to 65.3%, but I needed to fast charge to get home the other day, and it bumped back to 67% Lots of variation showing in the cell charges. I am not too savy in understanding much of LeafSpy information.

I've been reading here, and I had been assuming that I was getting close to dropping the 4th bar and thereafter would be getting a new battery. So I ignored the semi-turtle events.

Then yesterday afternoon, 2 bat temp bars, 20 deg F, 68% battery charge, I am doing 65,mph on a slight upward incline. I feel it reduce power and slow some, did not pay much attention to dash initially.

THEN, car loses ALL power. Lights on dash all light up including a check engine light I've not seen before. The nice voice announces I should pull over (still coasting at this point" and set the Parking Brake. I later find that the car has defaulted to Neutral.

Was able to get off the interstate. I failed to take pictures of the various error messages (was getting out of traffic and making a lot of driving decisions). But on the side of the road, I shut down the Leaf and restarted. No changes. Still multiple error lights. Woud not shift into D. Climate control giving no heat (could not hear heat pump). Heated seat interesting still functional.

4.2 Miles from dealer where I originally purchased and AAA member, so 45 minutes later I handed the key fob to the dealer service guy and that was that. Their Leaf technician has weekend off. Will know more on Monday. I did not try to look at things with LeafSpy or my other OBDII diagnostic program. I was freezing, as I had no heat and only was wearing scrubs and light jacket......

I have not read where anyone else was having the cold weather turtle/reduction of power where the vehicle actually finally died. We will see. I will post more when I know more. Perhaps will get my new battery soon.....

Run LEAF Spy until the event happens. Logs will show a cell or two (only takes one) hitting cutoff voltage. I see these kinds of posts a half dozen times a year in the Canada group. Cold weather aggravates weaker cells and if its cold enough, will affect not so weak cells.

Problem with these events (as you now know) is BMS registers nothing so no codes to prove your claim. One guy after having this happen twice with trips to the dealership for each event with them taking at least a day or two to come back and say "no problemo here. Enjoy your day!"

When it became obvious that it was repeatable, he started videoing his commutes and within a week was able to capture the issues. He now has a new pack. This happened over several months. FYI; never did see a code of any kind.
 
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