Kaktor
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:18 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2018

Lowest charge wattage possible?

Hello dear Humans and Robots!

Q:
What is the lowest power that the Leaf ZE0 will charge at and how to get it there?

Background:
I am thinking about getting a solar-generator (basically a mega-powerbank) which comes with a 500W inverter. And it occurred to me, that a portable 0.5kwh battery could mean the difference between reaching the next charger or a tow truck. But how to get the juice from the box into the car without blowing the poor little thing up?

Research:
The EVSE controlls the maximum power available to the EV via PWM in the charge-cable. But the lowest amount is 6A (is that true?). At 230v (I live in Europe), that is almost 1400w. But would that mean, that I can feed 110v through the granny lead? 110v x 6a is a mere 660W, which slowly comes into the area we can handle. A step-down transformer could do that, eh? I saw someone on youtube putting up some solar panels around their car, to catch some free power during the day. I wonder how they did it? Trickle-charge an external battery and then dump it in through a big inverter?

Any help is appreciated!
Cheers,
chris :)
MY15 Tekna since Aug 2018 in Munich, Germany
jjeff
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Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

I don't have first-hand experience with European Leafs but I'd "think" you could feed compatible EVSEs 120v @ 6a, all our Leafs in N. America will take either 120v or 240v nominal so I'd think?? yours might be the same. I really wouldn't suggest a step-down transformer as that would incur more losses, you'll already be incurring quite a bit of losses feeding your Leaf such low wattage as any charging has a minimum of losses which if you are charging higher wattages will be a smaller percentage of the base. It's my guess charging at 6a @ 120v that you might only get half the wattage into the battery and the rest could be losses.
Would you have access to a primary source of 120v, without using a somewhat heavy, expensive, lossy step-down transformer? That would be a better option in my opinion but if you weren't deterred by that then I'd say it should be possible to do what you proposed.
We don't have a lot of non-N. Americans here on MNL but we do have a few Europeans, Dala from Scandanavia would know your question for sure but I personally would be surprised if you had a different built-in charger than 120v countries, of course the EVSE you had would have to be capable if 120v operation. Most of the Chinese EVSE operate on both but in our case some EVSEs only work on 120v and maybe in your case they could possibly only work on 220?
Last edited by jjeff on Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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alozzy
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Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

Why not something off the shelf instead?

https://www.bluettipower.com/products/e ... or-camping

Has a built-in solar charge controller (MPPT) too.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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Kaktor
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:18 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2018

Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

Hello and thank you both!

Yes! Dala. He reads messages. I should try reaching him.

Yes! Bluetti. Hah, that is exactly why I was asking.
But they only deliver 1 type of voltage, so I'd have to decide between (possible) car-charger at 110 or home-use at 230.

For solar-re-charging, I need a specific one, because I have a big 24V panel. Only the AC200MAX (for 2000+ moneys) and the affordable AC50S will charge from panels with that voltage.
The big one delivers 2kw+, so that would be really nice and work okay with 230x6A- but expensive and heavy. But the small one will only deliver 300W on 230V - interestingly also on 110V, so double the Amps!

Hm. I might just shell out for the 2kw / 2kwh Bluetti for a proper home-backup and proper reserve-battery for the road. However 2200€ vs 450€ is quite an investment.

Thanks for thinking with me and cheers!
chris :)
MY15 Tekna since Aug 2018 in Munich, Germany
Kaktor
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:18 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2018

Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

I left Dala a message through the website.

Also, Klicking around, I found the Ecoflow Delta Mini, which has almost the highest cost-per-kwh, but comes with 48v solar charging and a 1400W inverter for 800 buckaroos less than the Bluetti AC200max. Jackery's products all have too low wattage.

I also found that I could not find a proper comparison between all those things and I had to each individual spec sheet :/
MY15 Tekna since Aug 2018 in Munich, Germany
alozzy
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Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

Zendure has some pretty cool products:

https://zendure.com/collections/power-s ... er-station

Realize though that not long ago they were a start-up, so their products might not be as mature as Ecoflow or Bluetti products.

I have no personal experience with Zendure products, but many people on solar forums and such rave about them.

Check out Will Prowse's YouTube channel too, he does lots of product reviews and he's very knowledgeable and brutally honest in his reviews.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
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After market, DIY LED DRLs
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Loving my first BEV :D
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Nubo
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Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

Kaktor wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:43 am ...
The EVSE controlls the maximum power available to the EV via PWM in the charge-cable. But the lowest amount is 6A (is that true?). At 230v (I live in Europe), that is almost 1400w. But would that mean, that I can feed 110v through the granny lead? 110v x 6a is a mere 660W, which slowly comes into the area we can handle. A step-down transformer could do that, eh? ...
Keep in mind that the vehicle consumes power while charging; something on the order of 300 watts or more, to power the electronics and coolant circulation pumps. Factor in conversion losses (DC to 230v to 120v, and then 120v to 500vdc), and very little of your stored .5 kWH is going to end up in the LEAF's traction pack. All said and done, I'd expect maybe 1km of range. I think in order for this to have practical application you'd need a significantly higher capacity storage battery which would also allow for a more powerful inverter and less conversion loss.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.
Kaktor
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:18 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2018

Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

Hello and thanks for more ideas.

I just found this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/12 ... escription

Which is either a scam or epicly cheap! Super early bird for 10 more hours. Currently half the price compared to other brands.
It does 2500w, has nice handles for carrying and can even do UPS. PV inputs are in my voltage range.

Fingers crossed.
cheers :D
MY15 Tekna since Aug 2018 in Munich, Germany
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Dala
Forum Supporter
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Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

500W charging is possible. Install a CAN-bridge with this code, modify it to restrict PDM to 500W max https://github.com/dalathegreat/Nissan- ... rgeCurrent . Then you can use whatever 230V 8A charger, and it will charge at 500W max.

However, it is a terrible idea. You will loose 300W to simply run the modules and coolant pumps, so only 200W will make it into the battery. Better to build something capable of 1000W, less losses that way!
Kaktor
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:18 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2018

Re: Lowest charge wattage possible?

Hi Dala,

of course you are a member of this forum :lol:

Thanks for the detailed answer.
Ya, this is nothing for a daily commute. Rather to limp to the next charger when everything else goes wrong. Good to know how big the basic consumption of the car is.

I ordered (kickstarted) a bigger battery-box now.

Is there a way to charge while driving? Or just offset the power used? I know that Muxan installs extra batteries. Maybe a small "detachable extra battery"?
Just curious.

Cheers!
chris :)
MY15 Tekna since Aug 2018 in Munich, Germany

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