240 outlet for 2022 leaf EVSE question

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Adamtucci

New member
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
2
Hello Leaf community.

I am the new owner of a 2022 SL plus and had an electrician tell me something puzzling today.

In the garage, I have a 240 outlet already but with a 30amp outlet on it. I called an electrician out to upgrade it to a50 amp circuit because I knew it needed to be desired to the larger gauge for 50 amps.

The electrician seemed to believe that I can’t plug in the EVSE to a 50 amp circuit because the EVSE says on the back “input 240v / 30 amps”. And since it says that, they won’t install a 50 amp circuit.

I’m confused and this doesn’t sound right but I can’t find any documentation to say what amperage the input from the house should be.

Appreciate your help and sorry if this was answered but I didn’t find anything in my search!

Adam
 
Keep things simple and use the existing 240V 30A circuit with an after market adjustable EVSE that you can buy for under $400.

Here's just one example, not an endorsement. Note that there are many similar products...

https://amzn.to/3FgN8yI

On a 30A circuit, do not exceed a 26A output! I personally use the EVSE in my signature with an amperage setting of 24A and I have never had a single issue in 5 years charging with it.

Note that, if you have a 14-30 "dryer" style receptacle, you can simply remove the ununsed neutral blade from the plug of the EVSE, despite the plug being 14-50p. After doing the that, it will fit in a 14-30R.

You can likely sell the stock EVSE that came with your LEAF for $400 - $500.
 
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm still confused why the EVSE would have a 14-50 plug on it if it can't be plugged into a 14-50 outlet. The 14-50 outlet can only be installed on a 50 amp circuit. Why would I not be able to plug in an appliance with a lower amperage rating than the circuit?

Unfortunately, cutting off a blade won't work for my 10-30R outlet as it has the angled blades. I see on Amazon that I could buy an adapter but that still doesn't seem to be the right thing to do. Then I'll be drawing 30 amps from a 30 amp circuit that will likely trip, no?
 
Nissan screwed up badly by including a non-adjustable EVSE that requires a 30 amp circuit in 240 volt mode, when they actually showed, in some ads, one being used with a 30 amp dryer circuit. As for the electrician's position: it's better for a device to be closer to the circuit breaker rating in its power draw, simply so the breaker trips more readily and quickly in marginal situations. It isn't something that is followed that religiously, though. Another electrician would likely do it. The compromise would be to put in the wiring for a 50A circuit, then use a 40A breaker that could be swapped out for a 50A breaker in the future.
 
Adamtucci said:
Hello Leaf community.

I am the new owner of a 2022 SL plus and had an electrician tell me something puzzling today.

In the garage, I have a 240 outlet already but with a 30amp outlet on it. I called an electrician out to upgrade it to a50 amp circuit because I knew it needed to be desired to the larger gauge for 50 amps.

The electrician seemed to believe that I can’t plug in the EVSE to a 50 amp circuit because the EVSE says on the back “input 240v / 30 amps”. And since it says that, they won’t install a 50 amp circuit.

I’m confused and this doesn’t sound right but I can’t find any documentation to say what amperage the input from the house should be.

Appreciate your help and sorry if this was answered but I didn’t find anything in my search!

Adam

Adam,

If you have the same Portable Charge Cable (120V/240V Evse) that came with my 2020 SL+ then a 50 amp 14-50R receptacle, wired and protected for either 40 or 50 amps. is the proper one for it.

The 240v/30 amps on the back of the EVSE is what the EVSE current draw is at max output when connected to your car, not what the outlet and circuit should be, The OEM EVSE should not be connected o a 30 amp 240 circuit since it would exceed 80% of the rated output for the circuit.

A 30 amp circuit is only rated for 24 amps max for continuous load like an EVSE. Your receptacle need to be a 14-50R wired and protected either for 40 amps or for 50 amps.
 
Adamtucci said:
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm still confused why the EVSE would have a 14-50 plug on it if it can't be plugged into a 14-50 outlet. The 14-50 outlet can only be installed on a 50 amp circuit. Why would I not be able to plug in an appliance with a lower amperage rating than the circuit?

Unfortunately, cutting off a blade won't work for my 10-30R outlet as it has the angled blades. I see on Amazon that I could buy an adapter but that still doesn't seem to be the right thing to do. Then I'll be drawing 30 amps from a 30 amp circuit that will likely trip, no?

Please reread my post, that's not what I was saying...

Short version: you can buy a non Nissan, adjustable amperage EVSE, set that to 24A, and plug that into a NEMA 14-30R (standard dryer receptacle), if you remove the neutral blade from the plug 🔌

However, you have indicated that you have a 10-30R with the angled blades, so you would either order the new EVSE with that plug, use an adapter, or have the electrician change the 10-30R to a 14-30R

If you want to use the stock EVSE (Nissan one) then you have to use a 50A circuit with a 14-50R.

I was merely pointing out to you a less expensive alternative than having to rewire everything. Buying an adjustable amperage, portable EVSE and using your existing receptacle will almost certainly be less expensive than pulling new wire for a 14-50R, especially if you'll also need to upgrade your main panel.
 
Adamtucci said:
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm still confused why the EVSE would have a 14-50 plug on it if it can't be plugged into a 14-50 outlet. The 14-50 outlet can only be installed on a 50 amp circuit. ...

You're not confused; your electrician is, imho. By code, the 30 amp draw of the Nissan EVSE requires at least a 40 amp supply. AFAIK, 40 amp circuit breakers are not a thing in the USA; neither are 40 amp receptacles. That would seem to leave the 14-50 on a 50-amp circuit as the correct wiring. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
AFAIK, 40 amp circuit breakers are not a thing in the USA; neither are 40 amp receptacles.

40 amp breakers exist. There is no specific receptacle for them, though, so if a 50A (14-50) outlet is used with a 40A breaker, the outlet should be labeled 40A Maximum.
 
Nubo said:
Adamtucci said:
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm still confused why the EVSE would have a 14-50 plug on it if it can't be plugged into a 14-50 outlet. The 14-50 outlet can only be installed on a 50 amp circuit. ...

You're not confused; your electrician is, imho. By code, the 30 amp draw of the Nissan EVSE requires at least a 40 amp supply. AFAIK, 40 amp circuit breakers are not a thing in the USA; neither are 40 amp receptacles. That would seem to leave the 14-50 on a 50-amp circuit as the correct wiring. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

My ancient and not to be recommended EVSE install instructions required a 40 Amp breaker, 50 Amp wiring and a 50 Amp outlet. That's how it is installed. I've got a 50 Amp breaker sitting on the shelf for the day when it breaks and I buy a new EVSE.
 
GerryAZ said:
To avoid confusion, you can ask the electrician to install a 14-50 receptacle for RV use and keep the EVSE in the trunk until after the installation is complete.

This, or as others have said, have the electrician pull wiring for 50a(6 gauge) circuit but install a 40a breaker and leave you a 50a breaker in case you ever get an RV, EVSE or other device requiring over 40a into that outlet. Easier to just say the outlet is for an RV.
 
Kind of funny that the "old" (Gen1) Nissan EVSE remains the simplest solution today--even if you have to create a NEMA 6-20 (or 30) to 14-50 adapter.
 
Adamtucci said:
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm still confused why the EVSE would have a 14-50 plug on it if it can't be plugged into a 14-50 outlet. The 14-50 outlet can only be installed on a 50 amp circuit.
The bolded statement is not correct. If the circuit is dedicated to the 14-50 receptacle, the only restriction is that the breaker be no more than 50A.

And as others have approximately noted, if the EVSE is 30A continuous, then it would require at least a 37.5A circuit. That would mean a 40A breaker minimum. As such, unless your 30A dryer circuit was run with a larger than necessary wire originally, you can't use it for the Nissan supplied EVSE.

Cheers, Wayne
 
LeftieBiker said:
40 amp breakers exist. There is no specific receptacle for them, though, so if a 50A (14-50) outlet is used with a 40A breaker, the outlet should be labeled 40A Maximum.
Should as in "would be a nice heads up for the uninformed," there's no requirement to do so. I would say instead that if you see a 14-50, 10-50, or 6-50 receptacle, you should check the breaker supplying it to find out the circuit rating.

Cheers, Wayne
 
I would genuinely appreciate an electrician explaining why the consensus is to run a new 50A circuit rather than to make use of the existing 30A circuit and an adjustable EVSE.

For many people living in a townhouse or an older home, a 100A main panel is standard. In such cases, the electrician will almost certainly want to upgrade the panel.

In contrast, using an existing 30A circuit, with a 24A limited EVSE, incurs no new wiring costs nor panel upgrades. It also allows the LEAF to charge at 87% of full L2 rate. Selling the Nissan supplied EVSE makes it a zero cost option...

I realize that cost isn't everything, but a $2000 unexpected bill (panel upgrade, wiring, labor, etc) for a new EV owner isn't fun and the pay back period isn't great either...

I see posts like this over and over again, so a sticky post by an electrician, covering the range of options, would be an excellent resource for future EV owners. It would also make it easier for MNL members to direct new members to the sticky post, like we do with LeftieBiker's excellent post.
 
Electricians want to wire circuits - they don't want to drive out, install a new outlet, and leave. EV enthusiasts want to "future proof" everything, and most of them have the financial means to do so. I agree with you: the first option to be considered should always be using an existing circuit, with an appropriate EVSE set to use it safely.
 
Adamtucci said:
The electrician seemed to believe that I can’t plug in the EVSE to a 50 amp circuit because the EVSE says on the back “input 240v / 30 amps”. And since it says that, they won’t install a 50 amp circuit.


There was a misunderstanding somewhere between you and the electrician. The LEAF can most surely use a 14-50 receptacle in a 40/50 Amp circuit and breaker. Moreover, the supplied OEM EVSE should not be used in a "30 Amp" circuit because a circuit and its breaker has to be rated at 125% of the current drawn when EV charging so you need at least a 40 Amp circuit and breaker.

Call a different electrician.

Advice: if the upgraded circuit work is expensive, skip it and buy an EVSE rated for 24 Amp pull (30 Amp breaker) instead with the money you get from selling the OEM EVSE. You will get close to 90% of the OEM charging time solution.
 
jjeff said:
This, or as others have said, have the electrician pull wiring for 50a(6 gauge) circuit but install a 40a breaker and leave you a 50a breaker in case you ever get an RV, EVSE or other device requiring over 40a into that outlet. Easier to just say the outlet is for an RV.
There is no problem at all with installing a 50 Amp breaker here. In fact, I think it is preferable since a visitor may presume that the circuit supports 50 Amps (or 40 Amps continuous) based on the receptacle.
 
SageBrush said:
Call a different electrician.

That's the simplest answer.

A circuit breaker is required to protect the wires in walls and attics. Plugs keep one from plugging in something that could draw too much. Generally if you make an adapter, you're probably trying to do something you shouldn't be doing.

You don't have anything in your house that draws 15A or 20A yet your house is chock full of 15 and 20A breakers. You can have a 40, 50, 60, even 70A breaker on the right gauge wire running to your EVSE outlet to accommodate the Nissan EVSE.
 
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