Leaf died and went into neutral while driving on the road

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cryterion

Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
5
Location
California
So I be been trying rap my head around this but have no clue. I bought a 2011 leaf about a month ago and everything has been fine. I had the main battery replaced to a new 30 kWh and have been having a blast.

However, today I was driving home when suddenly out of nowhere the car went into neutral and I had to pull to the side of the road. The car wouldn’t start and go into drive ready mode but everything else worked including the stereo, lights, etc. thankfully I was close to home so I had it towed with AAA. I assumed this was because of the 12v battery and so I went to Costco with another car and got a new 12v. Came back home replaced it and the car turned on! I backed out the garage and made it maybe 200 ft when the same thing happened again and the car went into neutral and would not start. I had to push the car all the way back to my garage again which was not too fun.

I called up the person who had replaced my main battery and he said it’s probably a dead inverter that’s going to cost 3-4k. I really can’t afford this right now and was wondering if there is anything simpler or cheaper that I haven’t thought of yet.

Here’s a link to the LeafSpy DTC codes. I cleared them after putting in the new battery but they came back after the car died again.

LeafSpy DTC codes: https://pasteboard.co/KTGeg6fWIp3b.png
 
There are a lot of "inverter" codes in that list.
What was the history/reputation of the shop that did the traction battery pack upgrade? I'm assuming they had to install a CAN-bridge (which one?) to make this work.
 
Stanton said:
There are a lot of "inverter" codes in that list.
What was the history/reputation of the shop that did the traction battery pack upgrade? I'm assuming they had to install a CAN-bridge (which one?) to make this work.

I think pretty good it’s one of the few places that’s on the https://nissanleafbatteryreplacement.com/ website. Do you think this could be due to the traction battery change?
 
I doubt that the car would even move a few feet under its own power if the motor inverter were bad. Since there are error codes for the A/C compressor and the DC-DC converter in addition to the motor inverter, I suspect something with the battery or the CAN bus bridge. Whenever something really bad happens to the HV battery system, the LEAF goes into neutral so that you can coast off to the side of the road so going into neutral is the result and not the cause of the error codes.
 
I agree that there are just too many error codes, and an inverter failure would be too immediate and crippling, for it to be likely that it's actually the inverter. There are even coolant pump error codes in there. IIRC, though, it's not typical for a 12 volt battery failure to produce that large a variety of DTCs. That leaves the CANBUS system. Maybe there is a CANBUS interpreter device that was installed with the new battery, and that is the cause of the problem. It's probably not Dala's but it may be another brand...
 
I think it's still possible that it's the auxiliary (12V) battery. Just because it's new doesn't mean that it's charged, and the older Leafs don't do a good job of charging them. A lead acid battery can discharge considerably just sitting on the shelf for a few months.

So as a cheap thing to try, use a car battery charrger to really fully charge the battery, then attempt to clear the error codes if you can. Then try again, driving short loops or up and down the driveway initially in case you have to push it back again.

Edit: though I bow to Lefty's experience that such a variety of trouble codes suggests that it's not the auxiliary battery.
 
Hey, guys so update from today, I thought to give the 12v another try just in case and connected jumpers to another car and let it run for about 10 minutes to charge the 12v. That didn't end up working and I have not been able to start the car at all today.

I did clear all the DTC's again and ran it again and this time I have way fewer codes. Thank you all for your help so far!

Here's the link to the codes: https://pasteboard.co/PQHbV384LzEU.jpg
 
LeftieBiker said:
Maybe there is a CANBUS interpreter device that was installed with the new battery, and that is the cause of the problem.
It could be as simple as a terminating resistor when none is needed, or missing when one is needed. You should be able to measure 60 ohms CANH to CANL, due to exactly two 120 ohm resistors, one at each end of the CAN bus.

About 40 ohms indicates three resistors, which is bad, and 120 ohms indicates one resistor, arguably worse.

Since the CAN bus is the most likely problem, it might be worth investigating simple tools that can count bad packets or the like. As the next step after fully charging the auxiliary battery, since that's free if you have a battery charrger already.
 
Now the codes are down to ABS/braking system and...the inverter. There is still a possibility that the 12 volt battery is too damaged to power the startup properly, but the consistency of the inverter codes is worrisome. Does a failing PDM module produce those codes...?
 
If it actually is the inverter, that is not terrible news because they can be bought second hand relatively cheaply on Ebay.

I've also gotten the impression that they are not hard to install, although utmost care must be taken to follow the high voltage instructions to the letter.
 
That's what's been worrying me too. I found some on eBay for around the 700-800 dollar range which is not too terrible. I'm towing the car to the place that replaced my high voltage battery for him to check it out today. I'll let you guys know as soon as I find out the result. Thank you all for your help so far!
 
cryterion said:
I'm towing the car to the place that replaced my high voltage battery for him to check it out today. I'll let you guys know as soon as I find out the result. Thank you all for your help so far!
I think this is the only logical step.
I didn't want to say it right off the top, but now it's already been said: any errors/mistakes made in interfacing the CAN-bridge device could be catastrophic (it would also be good to know who's device it is). I know, because I was sweating bullets when I installed Dala's in mine (and he had step-by-step instructions).
 
Stanton said:
I didn't want to say it right off the top, but now it's already been said: any errors/mistakes made in interfacing the CAN-bridge device could be catastrophic (it would also be good to know who's device it is). I know, because I was sweating bullets when I installed Dala's in mine (and he had step-by-step instructions).

Catastrophic .. when ?
OP drove for about a month after installation
 
SageBrush said:
Stanton said:
I didn't want to say it right off the top, but now it's already been said: any errors/mistakes made in interfacing the CAN-bridge device could be catastrophic (it would also be good to know who's device it is). I know, because I was sweating bullets when I installed Dala's in mine (and he had step-by-step instructions).

Catastrophic .. when ?
OP drove for about a month after installation
When you connect the wrong wire to the wrong bus. Just sayin'
 
Stanton said:
SageBrush said:
Stanton said:
I didn't want to say it right off the top, but now it's already been said: any errors/mistakes made in interfacing the CAN-bridge device could be catastrophic (it would also be good to know who's device it is). I know, because I was sweating bullets when I installed Dala's in mine (and he had step-by-step instructions).

Catastrophic .. when ?
OP drove for about a month after installation
When you connect the wrong wire to the wrong bus. Just sayin'

I am asking if the failure would be delayed
 
Yeah so I took it in today, and he said it's probably the traction motor inverter, but he's going to open it up and take a look today and tomorrow. But from the looks of it, I'm gonna have to shell up a bit of money which is a bit disappointing, as I'm already running on a tight budget. :oops:
 
I had a post that I didn't send earlier. For what it's worth:

My last post took a long time and overlapped with the second set of errors post.

Just to finish the auxiliary battery story, if you don't have a car battery charrger handy, a better way to charge the auxiliary battery than jump starting would be to get it into ready mode (and you can sometimes do that), DON'T try to drive it, but keep the DC-DC running at around 14V. It would help a lot to have a voltmeter on the auxiliary battery, even if it's a cigarette lighter one. Operate the wipers now and then when the battery voltage falls below about 13.5V; this will pump the battery voltage back to around 14V. That way, the DC-DC will be pumping up to about 80A into the battery, far more than you'll get by jump starting. Ten minutes or so of this should charge the auxiliary battery, unless it's faulty, and assuming that the DC-DC is working. And we have no suggestion so far that it's not.

But back to the errors: they all have EV/HEV system or similar in the title. This might be referring to the CAN bus that they are on, I don't recall the Leaf's bus topology. But it's starting to sound to me like maybe one of the main contactors isn't conducting properly. If it's the one that is across the pre-charge resistor, that will quickly overheat, and will make it harder and harder to get the car into ready as it increases in resistance, and the RC time constant increases. The fact that the system tends to fail under load, when any voltage drop across the contactors would have its greatest effect, lends credence to this theory. It could also be other resistance in the HV circuit: the main DC fuse or its contacts, any of the bolted HV contacts inside the PDM, or the HV connector between the battery and the car. The latter is under the vehicle and subject to weather, so it would be a more likely culprit. It's also one that you could potentially check without having to take down the HV battery (obviously remove the battery interconnect before doing this, and don't think of doing this at all if you aren't confident with HV DC work). Look for signs of heating, corrosion, etc.

Come to think of it, that's something I should be checking on my own 2012 Leaf that suddenly changed behaviour a year ago. The GOM would suddenly subtract 10km of guessed range sometimes several times a minute. I had checked the HV fuse, but not that connector. Thanks for the thought!
 
SageBrush said:
Stanton said:
SageBrush said:
Catastrophic .. when ?
OP drove for about a month after installation
When you connect the wrong wire to the wrong bus. Just sayin'

I am asking if the failure would be delayed.
There's no way for me (or anyone not present when the work was done) to know that.
I was there for the entire install process when I did my battery upgrade, and I can tell you that one of the reasons I selected Dala's CAN-bridge solution is because it is protected (inside) the car and not exposed to any outside elements (like the HV connector area). I don't remember reading a lot about inverter failures over the years (on this forum), but it doesn't seem like something that would fail without an external event after so many years (e.g. not an "infant" failure).
 
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