My Nissan Leaf Forum

DaveinOlyWA wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:41 pm

markismail wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:19 pm I haven't seen any particular confirmation as to why 60 vs. 62 before. Did they change how they rate it? Did they reduce the amount that's user accessible? Did they actually reduce the pack's gross capacity?

change how they rate it? no... The pack is simply different and not sure why that is unusual because Nissan has done that constantly thru out. Now, they didn't change the 24 kwh designation from 2011-12 but the capacity did increase and like that instance, this instance also included a chemistry change.

The 2011 and 2012 models had the same battery size and chemistry. Late 2011 and all 2012 models had cold weather package which included steering wheel, front seat, outside mirror, and battery heaters. Real world driving range of my 2015 was the same as my early 2011, but charging energy from the wall was a little less because the 6 kW onboard charger was faster than 3.3 kW in 2011. Therefore, I believe the 2015 had approximately the same 24 kWh capacity as the 2011.

The arctic weather outbreak headed our way has me reconsidering my thoughts on the 62kwh battery and its apparent lack of a battery heater. We're expecting double-digit sub-zero lows 2 days in a row next week, something we very rarely see in the greater Denver area.

I'll move the Leaf into the garage for those nights - simplest solution. For those without a garage, not a great prospect.

Has anyone come up with a solution for heating the battery while parked outside? I've wondered about RV tank heaters. Haven't been up close and personal with the underside of the battery yet. I wonder if a couple of those might not be enough to stave off the worst outcomes. There are some models that run on AC power.

https://www.annodindustries.com/shop/sh ... aters.html

Just a thought.

As we are strongly considering adding storage to our future solar setup on the house, this is also of interest for that application. We don't have room for storage batteries inside our garage at our location.

-b

A combination of leaving it plugged in for L-1 charging, and regularly running the climate control for 15 minutes to run the battery down, that might work if finessed well.

LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:01 am A combination of leaving it plugged in for L-1 charging, and regularly running the climate control for 15 minutes to run the battery down, that might work if finessed well.

So arrange to keep the battery "busy" overnight?

Hmmm. I guess that could work. Not keen on charging a really cold battery though - isn't that a bad idea?

I still think one could stick the 200w battery heaters on the bottom of the battery and route the plugs forward ala an engine heater for a traditional car. Power draw isn't that much on a 120 circuit. Gotta help some, but absent a cooling circuit to spread the heat around, you might still freeze an outlying cell.

Sure wish Nissan had just installed battery heaters.

frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:07 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:01 am A combination of leaving it plugged in for L-1 charging, and regularly running the climate control for 15 minutes to run the battery down, that might work if finessed well.

So arrange to keep the battery "busy" overnight?

Hmmm. I guess that could work. Not keen on charging a really cold battery though - isn't that a bad idea?

I still think one could stick the 200w battery heaters on the bottom of the battery and route the plugs forward ala an engine heater for a traditional car. Power draw isn't that much on a 120 circuit. Gotta help some, but absent a cooling circuit to spread the heat around, you might still freeze an outlying cell.

Sure wish Nissan had just installed battery heaters.

Charging a cold battery is only bad when using too much charging current, but the Leaf already lowers charging power when it detects cold temperatures outside. It does this even for the 12V battery, which is why a lot of Lead Acid batteries don't live long in a Leaf. Cold weather plus trickle charge current for only minutes.

The jury is still out on if the Plus models (62, 60 kWh) batteries are heat free. When the conditions are right, I'm going to cool my battery with -100F dry ice and monitor it to see if it kicks in some kind of power draw to heat the battery. Been on that quest to figure it out for over a year now.

frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:07 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:01 am A combination of leaving it plugged in for L-1 charging, and regularly running the climate control for 15 minutes to run the battery down, that might work if finessed well.

So arrange to keep the battery "busy" overnight?

Hmmm. I guess that could work. Not keen on charging a really cold battery though - isn't that a bad idea?

I still think one could stick the 200w battery heaters on the bottom of the battery and route the plugs forward ala an engine heater for a traditional car. Power draw isn't that much on a 120 circuit. Gotta help some, but absent a cooling circuit to spread the heat around, you might still freeze an outlying cell.

Sure wish Nissan had just installed battery heaters.

As knightmb noted, it isn't necessarily bad to charge a cold battery. There is a lot of evidence here that using L-1 charging to keep the battery a little warmer than frigid is harmless, and it seems to protect the battery. Rather than 'keeping the battery busy' think of it as 'keeping the battery warm enough' albeit in a slightly Rube Goldberg way. The trick is to keep it from sitting at 100% indicated charge for days on end, or to allow it to get too low on charge. And yes, it would have been nice if Nissan had at least offered battery heaters as an option.

LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:49 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:07 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:01 am A combination of leaving it plugged in for L-1 charging, and regularly running the climate control for 15 minutes to run the battery down, that might work if finessed well.

So arrange to keep the battery "busy" overnight?

Hmmm. I guess that could work. Not keen on charging a really cold battery though - isn't that a bad idea?

I still think one could stick the 200w battery heaters on the bottom of the battery and route the plugs forward ala an engine heater for a traditional car. Power draw isn't that much on a 120 circuit. Gotta help some, but absent a cooling circuit to spread the heat around, you might still freeze an outlying cell.

Sure wish Nissan had just installed battery heaters.

As knightmb noted, it isn't necessarily bad to charge a cold battery. There is a lot of evidence here that using L-1 charging to keep the battery a little warmer than frigid is harmless, and it seems to protect the battery. Rather than 'keeping the battery busy' think of it as 'keeping the battery warm enough' albeit in a slightly Rube Goldberg way. The trick is to keep it from sitting at 100% indicated charge for days on end, or to allow it to get too low on charge. And yes, it would have been nice if Nissan had at least offered battery heaters as an option.

You'd have to get access to the bottom of the battery and not the bottom of the car, which is more than I'd probably care to do nowadays but I recently installed a nice outdoor battery blanket in a generator that was 6' long by 7" wide and not very thick and drew 160w @ 120v. It went on at 60 degrees F and off at 80F and was around $100. Guess you could get multiple ones to cover something wider than 7" but the 6' should easily cover the length of the Leaf battery pack, they also made shorter ones.

knightmb wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:05 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:07 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:01 am A combination of leaving it plugged in for L-1 charging, and regularly running the climate control for 15 minutes to run the battery down, that might work if finessed well.

So arrange to keep the battery "busy" overnight?

Hmmm. I guess that could work. Not keen on charging a really cold battery though - isn't that a bad idea?

I still think one could stick the 200w battery heaters on the bottom of the battery and route the plugs forward ala an engine heater for a traditional car. Power draw isn't that much on a 120 circuit. Gotta help some, but absent a cooling circuit to spread the heat around, you might still freeze an outlying cell.

Sure wish Nissan had just installed battery heaters.

Charging a cold battery is only bad when using too much charging current, but the Leaf already lowers charging power when it detects cold temperatures outside. It does this even for the 12V battery, which is why a lot of Lead Acid batteries don't live long in a Leaf. Cold weather plus trickle charge current for only minutes.

The jury is still out on if the Plus models (62, 60 kWh) batteries are heat free. When the conditions are right, I'm going to cool my battery with -100F dry ice and monitor it to see if it kicks in some kind of power draw to heat the battery. Been on that quest to figure it out for over a year now.

Definitely interested in hearing the results of that test. As I noted above, we'll put it in the garage, and that will likely suffice. Although I've seen a forecast high as low as -3F forecast for next week, which could be an issue. We don't normally see extended temps that low in Denver proper.

Hopefully I'll have some data this week. The next few days is going to be 4 of more days of single digit temperatures. That is plenty of time for the battery to cool down and for me to dump some dry ice on it and try to hit the magical -4 F internal temperature to make it either kick in some heater or I'll just have to end the experiment if I don't see anything being done to warm the battery before it hits the damage critical -40 F temperature.

frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:16 am

knightmb wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:05 pm Charging a cold battery is only bad when using too much charging current, but the Leaf already lowers charging power when it detects cold temperatures outside. It does this even for the 12V battery, which is why a lot of Lead Acid batteries don't live long in a Leaf. Cold weather plus trickle charge current for only minutes.

The jury is still out on if the Plus models (62, 60 kWh) batteries are heat free. When the conditions are right, I'm going to cool my battery with -100F dry ice and monitor it to see if it kicks in some kind of power draw to heat the battery. Been on that quest to figure it out for over a year now.

Definitely interested in hearing the results of that test. As I noted above, we'll put it in the garage, and that will likely suffice. Although I've seen a forecast high as low as -3F forecast for next week, which could be an issue. We don't normally see extended temps that low in Denver proper.

Thought this was a resolved issue?

Had confirmation from one of the leading LEAF techs in the Pacific Northwest who confirms all current LEAFs still have the battery warmer.