“Clear Long Term Capacity Data” dealer scam?

[Leafnewbie1]

I am new to electric vehicles and I bought a 2011 leaf with 30,000 miles, it has 12 capacity bars so I was under the impression the battery was replaced. When I picked up the vehicle it was fully charged and the range was 76 miles. Things change quickly when I drove it off the lot, I live 30 miles from the dealership and it barely made it to my house. I started doing some research on the vehicle and I found that it was taken to a Nissan dealership a month before I bought it for a battery usage check and the capacity bars were at 7... so my question is can the capacity bars be reset without putting a new battery in? The Nissan dealership told me this is not possible but obviously something was done. I purchased an obd2 recently and leaf spy. Here are my readings:
SOH-60.11
AHr-39.43
Hx- 37.65

 

[GaleHawkins]

I read how that could be done a couple days ago but I think the thought was it would have to be done using a Nissan Leaf service computer.

Your test results are believable for a 2011 Leaf however. There are some sharp Leaf folks here.

 

[goldbrick]

I started doing some research on the vehicle and I found that it was taken to a Nissan dealership a month before I bought it for a battery usage check and the capacity bars were at 7

I would take the car back to the dealer, show them this information and ask for an explanation. Then ask them to take the car back and if they refuse, take the case up with Nissan USA customer service, the BBB, or whoever. This is an obvious rip-off and you have been scammed.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The battery management system (BMS) was reset. This produces a false 12 capacity bar reading that the car gradually corrects over the course of a few weeks or months as it "re-learns" the actual capacity. Whether accidentally or on purpose, the dealership cheated you. I'm going to link to my used Leaf buying guide. Read it, and don't even think about another pre-2014 Leaf unless it has a new battery!

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

 

[Astros]

A big part of the problem is that many Nissan Leaf technicians don't believe BMS resets are possible, yet it clearly happens. I would think that the technician who applied the update or performed would notice that the battery health miraculously improved, but they must either not notice or believe that they fixed it. I'm afraid that my conversations with "top" technicians at various dealerships have given me no confidence in their knowledge of the vehicle or their problem solving skills, and I just hope I never have to bring my Leaf in for a serious problem.

 

[Leafnewbie1]

Thanks for the quick responses! Unfortunately I already tried to return it but the dealer refused to take it back. I will reach out to Nissan and bbb, I guess my only option is to take this guy to small claims court. If the bms was reset is there any way to get proof of that? If I took it to Nissan and they hooked it up to their computers would there be any evidence on the vehicles computer of a reset? I appreciate the help!

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks for the quick responses! Unfortunately I already tried to return it but the dealer refused to take it back. I will reach out to Nissan and bbb, I guess my only option is to take this guy to small claims court. If the bms was reset is there any way to get proof of that? If I took it to Nissan and they hooked it up to their computers would there be any evidence on the vehicles computer of a reset? I appreciate the help!

The battery's capacity should be readable by the dealership's (and any other Nissan dealership's) Consult diagnostic computer, if not yet then shortly. Take plenty of photographs of the dash display (with evidence that it's your car's dash) before it reverts. Where did you see the 7 bar capacity listed? I didn't think Carfax had that. The dealership is fighting because they know a 7 bar Leaf is almost worthless, which makes me think they are also crooks.

 

[GerryAZ]

I am new to electric vehicles and I bought a 2011 leaf with 30,000 miles, it has 12 capacity bars so I was under the impression the battery was replaced. When I picked up the vehicle it was fully charged and the range was 76 miles. Things change quickly when I drove it off the lot, I live 30 miles from the dealership and it barely made it to my house. I started doing some research on the vehicle and I found that it was taken to a Nissan dealership a month before I bought it for a battery usage check and the capacity bars were at 7... so my question is can the capacity bars be reset without putting a new battery in? The Nissan dealership told me this is not possible but obviously something was done. I purchased an obd2 recently and leaf spy. Here are my readings:
SOH-60.11
AHr-39.43
Hx- 37.65

Those LEAF Spy numbers are commensurate with 7 capacity bars because they are somewhat lower than the numbers from my 2011 before its original battery was replaced. It was still showing 8 capacity bars when I drove it to the dealer so they could install the new battery (took 3 months or so to get battery after it was ordered). LBC (lithium battery controller) reset does not change QC and L1/L2 charge counts or odometer so there is no obvious way to prove a reset unless there is service information (such as annual battery check or other test results) from Nissan that shows lower capacity bar counts than presently displayed.

 

[HerdingElectrons]

Don't waste your time with the BBB, they are a privately held company that is essentially a 1980's Yelp. They have ZERO regulatory or legal teeth aside from th e"threat" of public shaming by anyone who looks up said business on their site.

Am I reading from what you posted that you purchased this leaf from a independent used car dealership & NOT from a Nissan dealership?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Don't waste your time with the BBB, they are a privately held company that is essentially a 1980's Yelp. They have ZERO regulatory or legal teeth aside from the "threat" of public shaming by anyone who looks up said business on their site.

Some people have actually had success with the BBB against Nissan in cases of rapid capacity loss. I generally agree about them, but think it's still worth a try.

 

[powersurge]

Really sorry to hear of your experience...

Unfortunately since the car still works, there is no evidence that you can give that the battery had 12 bars..

You would probably have to take the used car dealer to small claims court.

Another thing you can do is to demand that you get a refund, or you will go to the "District Attorney". They handle crimes like fraud. Once I was able to return a really bad used car by threatening the District Attorney..

Give it a try.. Good luck.

 

[Leafnewbie1]

Sorry I didn’t specify, this was purchased from an independent used car dealership. It was serviced at Nissan right before I bought it. A battery usage check was done and they noted the bars were at 7. I believe it was the dealer that sold me the car that did the reset. When I picked the car up the dealer was persistent to show me how the bars were at 12 and the miles to empty were reading 76. The next day after charging it was reading only 40 miles. how long does it take for the miles to empty to return to normal after a reset? Can anyone with a Nissan consult tool do the reset or is this a dealership only thing?

 

[goldbrick]

I'm not sure what equipment is required to do the reset but folks who post here have devised more sophisticated software for the Leaf so I would bet that an unscrupulous dealer could find a way to do it. Eg, the $50 scan tool I bought off ebay will reset the odometer on my VW to any value you want!

I would check with the dealer where the 7 bars was observed. Most dealers log that kind of information by VIN, date, odometer reading, etc. If they would be willing to give you a print out of that report then you could prove that the BMS has been reset. It could be harder to prove where and when it happened and you might want to get legal help to answer those questions.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I hope that you recorded the 12 bar display as I suggested.

 

[Leafnewbie1]

I did take photos already and I even have a photo from the dealership that he took showing 12 bars and 76 miles to empty. I was looking through the advertisement page the dealer posted and there is a picture of the dash, you can vaguely see that the bars are at 7. Hopefully this will be enough to get a judge to see that this guy is up to no good. Thank you everyone for your help!

 

[cwerdna]

I'm not sure what equipment is required to do the reset but folks

Consult III Plus (https://www.aetools.us/products/nissan-consult-iii-plus/ and https://www.nissan-techinfo.com/dept.aspx?dept_id=25) all Nissan dealers would have is sufficient to reset it. Their legitimate use case is that it must be reset when changing the battery pack.

AntronX at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=489868#p489868 was another reset victim and he claims a tool from Autel did it too.

 

[mkwilkes]

20 years ago, the paint on my brand new Honda started to fail. The dealership would not fix the paint job. The regional manager told me to take it up with the BBB, which I did. If the process is the same as it was then, and the dealership you bought the Leaf from is a member of the Better Business Bureau, they have agreed to binding arbitration to settle disputes. I prepared my case, presented it to a group of three volunteer arbiters, and won. The dealership repainted the whole car. If the dealership is NOT a member of the BBB, don't bother because they are not required to submit to binding arbitration.