100 kW Charging

[BillAinCT]

I have collected evidence and posted pictures of the sub 50kW charging rates. You indicated you have achieved 70+ kW plus charging rates. Post the evidence. If not, don't make statements you cannot back up.

I can back it up! I cannot prove that this is actually my LEAF attached to this charger. Everyone but you surely won't doubt this was my LEAF. You seem to be on some expedition here that does not have a destination. What is it that you are really trying to prove? Just because 100kW and 200kW chargers exist and can be connected to does not imply that the vehicle connected is capable of that charging power.

 

[knightmb]

This was 20% to 60% of a 52 kWh battery, not a 62 kWh battery. 80% of a 62 kW in 45 minutes is a rate of 66. The average of the above is well below that before even going up to 80% which would have had further drops in rate as the graph shows.
No telling what the rate would've dropped down to next! It went down to 44% within 20 minutes and at 60% SOC.

I think the issue is that you are assuming that all batteries, no matter age or degradation all charge at the same rate?
The example above was a 5 year old battery with X amount of miles on it. If I rolled in with a brand new 2024 Leaf and did an identical charge session with the identical SOC and identical battery temperature, I am confident that giving them both the exact same amount of time, the 2024 will have charged to a higher percentage...because it's brand new.

Maybe I should go Nissan to borrow a 2024 Plus and record a charging session as Nissan HQ where they have unfairly faster QC chargers?

Some of this is the Leaf, yes, but the other half is the QC charger itself. They don't all perform the same when given identical conditions of the Leaf they are charging in comparison to other QC charging stations.

 

[ramisalah]

I can back it up! I cannot prove that this is actually my LEAF attached to this charger. Everyone but you surely won't doubt this was my LEAF. You seem to be on some expedition here that does not have a destination. What is it that you are really trying to prove? Just because 100kW and 200kW chargers exist and can be connected to does not imply that the vehicle connected is capable of that charging power.

Let's keep the discussion cordial and centered around facts, figures, etc.
As the earlier chart showed, the 70+ rate lasted for 10 minutes and deteriorated to 44 within 20 minutes. Short-lived 70+ rates are possible. But the battery on the Leaf is unable to sustain such rates for too long.

 

[ramisalah]

I think the issue is that you are assuming that all batteries, no matter age or degradation all charge at the same rate?
The example above was a 5 year old battery with X amount of miles on it. If I rolled in with a brand new 2024 Leaf and did an identical charge session with the identical SOC and identical battery temperature, I am confident that giving them both the exact same amount of time, the 2024 will have charged to a higher percentage...because it's brand new.

Maybe I should go Nissan to borrow a 2024 Plus and record a charging session as Nissan HQ where they have unfairly faster QC chargers?

Some of this is the Leaf, yes, but the other half is the QC charger itself. They don't all perform the same when given identical conditions of the Leaf they are charging in comparison to other QC charging stations.

No one was knocking your 5-year old car or battery. It was just a mathematical calculation of power delivered over a time duration.

 

[RogerRDalTx]

I'm making a 500 mile round trip drive over Memorial Day weekend, Dallas to Southwest of Austin and will need 3 or 4 DCFCs, in my 2019 SL Plus. My first chadmo fast charge to test the car wasn't great. I got 72 KW for less than a minute and within 5 minutes it was delivering mid-30 KW. Another member commented that I chose a bad fast charge network (EVgo).

I'll take the trip opportunity to document my charging experience. What data points would you like to see - ambient temperature, state of charge, charging network, battery temp, total kilowatt hours?

 

[BillAinCT]

If not, don't make statements you cannot back up.


Let's keep the discussion cordial and centered around facts, figures, etc.

Telling someone about backing up statements as if I'm making stuff up is not cordial IMO.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

I like to track:
State of Charge
Rate of Charge
Battery Temperature
Total kWh
Ambient Temperature

I capture :
LeafSpy
Car Scanner
Charging App
Dash info

(I don't know where to find my LeafSpy logs on my phone, but it would be nice to have them. I don't have dropbox connected.)

 

[BillAinCT]

As the earlier chart showed, the 70+ rate lasted for 10 minutes and deteriorated to 44 within 20 minutes. Short-lived 70+ rates are possible. But the battery on the Leaf is unable to sustain such rates for too long.

You asked what was the max charging rate people are seeing. Now you're asking about how long it maintains it. Are you trying to blame Nissan for something that happened to you? Nissan didn't claim it can withstand any power level for any amount of time. We all accept and know it drops. Maybe fast, maybe not. All times I DC charged I was done in 25-35 minutes (getting 60-75% more charge) and got going and I was happy with that. For me, it never dropped below 60kW. Again, what is your point? What precisely are you trying to uncover? What do you want to know? I'm asking respectfully since this topic has 50+ messages and you seem to not be getting the answer that you want.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I believe the drop happens due to growing delta in the measured temps. The fast charging grows that.delta between warmes.and coldest thermometer quickly.

In my.past trip home from Kansas, I saw a peak rate of about.53KW, and it held it past 60% from 22%.

 

[cwerdna]

Telling someone about backing up statements as is I'm making stuff up is not cordial IMO.

Indeed. http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/07/june-2020-drive-report-how-roadtripping.html who is here on MNL has a screenshot showing 71.9 kW in Leaf Spy Pro.

EA's receipt claims 73.00 kW max charging rate but I can say from experience with CCS1 on EA that the figure on that receipt can be buggy. IIRC, I've seen higher values than what my CCS1 car can do.

You asked what was the max charging rate people are seeing. Now you're asking about how long it maintains it. Are you trying to blame Nissan for something that happened to you? Nissan didn't claim it can withstand any power level for any amount of time. We all accept and know it drops. Maybe fast, maybe not. All times I DC charged I was done in 25-35 minutes (getting 60-75% more charge) and got going and I was happy with that. For me, it never dropped below 60kW. Again, what is your point? What precisely are you trying to uncover? What do you want to know? I'm asking respectfully since this topic has 50+ messages and you seem to not be getting the answer that you want.

Indeed. At this point, who cares anyway? Leaf is on life support. CHAdeMO in the US is dying. I've personally seen in CA a new EVgo site w/0 CHAdeMO. A new EA site here in CA also has apparently 0 CHAdeMO.

At another EA site (also in CA) where they originally left the old CCS1 + CHAdeMO DC FC in place after upgrading the rest to single cable CCS1 dispensers, they removed that dual handle unit. It is a single next gen CCS1 dispenser in its place now, leaving that site w/0 CHAdeMO. Fortunately, there are 4 ChargePoint DC FCs nearby that are dual handle CCS1 + CHAdeMO.

Given https://insideevs.com/news/522882/electrify-america-ends-chademo-installations/ and the above, I suspect EA will stop installing any new CHAdeMO even in CA, if they haven't already.

 

[coulomb]

I suspect that as EA and other charger networks start installing NACs connectors in North America, that will put further pressure on CHAdeMO availability.

 

[BillAinCT]

Nissan had a partnership or were under an agreement with EVgo that EVgo would install CHAdeMO handles in new sites. Did this expire?

With the demise of CHAdeMO, the CCS1 to CHAdeMO adapter (I prefer converter) means that for a price, one can forget about CHAdeMO and never look back.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

Nissan had a partnership or were under an agreement with EVgo that EVgo would install CHAdeMO handles in new sites. Did this expire?

Not to my knowledge.

 

[cwerdna]

Nissan had a partnership or were under an agreement with EVgo that EVgo would install CHAdeMO handles in new sites. Did this expire?

No idea.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/555743 is an example newly opened EVgo site with 0 CHAdeMO.

Not far away was a Walmart with two EVgo 50 kW dual handle (CCS1 and CHAdeMO) BTC Fatboy chargers. They later bolted on that CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter w/long cable to the side to both. But, unfortunately, we (just like folks in So Cal Walmarts) got notices in Plugshare that the chargers would be removed. And, they were. The WMT has no more public EV charging at all. If you hadn't been there before the DC FCs were in the ground, you wouldn't even know where they were previously located.

 

[ramisalah]

Telling someone about backing up statements as if I'm making stuff up is not cordial IMO.

Providing evidence is standard practice.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

The WMT has no more public EV charging at all. If you hadn't been there before the DC FCs were in the ground, you wouldn't even know where they were previously located.

That is interesting, considering all the noise they made at the beginning of the year.
https://insideevs.com/news/708207/walmart-remodels-stores-adds-ev-chargers/

 

[BillAinCT]

Providing evidence is standard practice.

For me, the best rate I got was 48 kW/h and that was very short lived as the rate dropped to the 30's within a couple of minutes.

At 100kW charger? Evidence?

 

[ramisalah]

At 100kW charger? Evidence?

EA 100 kW charger at Cell Phone Lot West in JFK. The starting rate was actually 47 kW at 48% SOC.

 

[ramisalah]

Nissan had a partnership or were under an agreement with EVgo that EVgo would install CHAdeMO handles in new sites. Did this expire?

With the demise of CHAdeMO, the CCS1 to CHAdeMO adapter (I prefer converter) means that for a price, one can forget about CHAdeMO and never look back.

Not Cheap!

 

[Chad E. Mo]

The starting rate was actually 47 kW at 48% SOC.

Where is the battery temperature graph? The pack could be hot.