Have had a 2015 Leaf for two years and loving it. Battery capacity is down to 9 bars and while that's not hindering city driving it's enough for me to start planning ahead. Articles like this claim it should cost $3-$5k to replace these old 24kwh batteries. I didn't know if I should believe what I read on the internet so I called my local Nissan dealer and they quoted me $12k, which doesn't even include labor. That was quite disappointing to hear, especially since battery tech is supposed to be getting cheaper all the time. (They also said they would not install a 40kwh replacement on the 2015 model, after I asked, which I expected, but I figured I'd ask anyway.) So.... is the local dealer just marking it up? What is a reasonable amount to pay?
$12k to replace 24kwh battery?
- Thread starter haldir
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I also own a 2015 LEAF S. 38,500 miles and 10 bars. Owned it since day 1. Nissan quoted me $10k+ for a replacement battery. Honestly, because I'm retired and use the car for local travel, I regularly get 80-85 miles range. For my purposes, I can keep driving this for a long, long time. Of course, if you take it on the freeway and drive 70+ you'll quickly drop that range down to 60 miles or so. But your question is about what-ifs and I get that. There's a company here in Atlanta called "Green Tec Auto" that would upgrade your 2015 Leaf to a 40 kwh battery for $11,000. A replacement 24 kwh battery is around $6.5k, I think...but it's only guaranteed to have 8 bars of that because it's refurbished battery cells.
Nissan is basically telling us to buy a new car if we don't like our battery range. After all, they're in the business of selling cars, not batteries. I've thought about many options, including buying a Chevy Bolt EUV to qualify for the $7500 tax credit. But every time I do the math, I'm reminded that there's really no option more economical than keeping my 2015 Leaf. Like you, I'm always looking for a good option that day I may want to keep my Leaf and upgrade the battery. Can't say I've seen it yet.
I should note I have a 2006 Mini Cooper S in the garage that runs great for any longer trips I may want to make.
You can check out: https://nissanleafbatteryreplacement.com/
Cheers and Good Luck!
Nissan is basically telling us to buy a new car if we don't like our battery range. After all, they're in the business of selling cars, not batteries. I've thought about many options, including buying a Chevy Bolt EUV to qualify for the $7500 tax credit. But every time I do the math, I'm reminded that there's really no option more economical than keeping my 2015 Leaf. Like you, I'm always looking for a good option that day I may want to keep my Leaf and upgrade the battery. Can't say I've seen it yet.
I should note I have a 2006 Mini Cooper S in the garage that runs great for any longer trips I may want to make.
You can check out: https://nissanleafbatteryreplacement.com/
Cheers and Good Luck!
danelo
Member
The dealer will be the most expensive option by far. If you could find a rebuilder that would be the way to go, but it doesn't seem like there are a lot of them around.
EVPowers
Well-known member
As painful as it is to say, your dealership is actually right on track with today's pricing and info.
That article is posting cost numbers with no actual citations of when and where they are getting those numbers from.
Those numbers are definitely incorrect. Waaaaayyyyy too low.
Now, it is true that back in 2014 when Nissan was in the middle of a Public Relations nightmare, they did, for a very brief time, install 24 kWh packs for under $6,000. But no way was that sustainable. That program went away one the PR kerfuffle went away.
Your reply from the dealership is much more based in the current reality.
As an EV shop, I am getting quoted ~$10,000 just for the part (24 kWh 85 miles) when buying from the Nissan parts department. Retail markup and labor would be additional.
Also, as you noted, no way is the Nissan dealership ever going to put a larger battery in a 24 kWh car. Nope.
In addition, generally you need to return a core the same size as what you purchase from them.
While Greentec is offering to put Degraded packs into people's cars, they *are not putting in OEM New packs/cells*. Read the fine print closely that states the amount of degradation you can expect on the packs they install. Also look closely at the caveats where they limit the amount Quick Charges you can do (no more than once a month I think), else you void your warranty. Ouch. There's even more "gotchas", but I'll leave you to read their info.
At independent Leaf Repair Network shops like mine, they can install the aftermarket LRN 40 kWh battery for the Nissan Leaf into your 24 kWh 2015.
- All New cells
- 150 mile range
- 3 year/36,000 mile part warranty
But the cost is more than some of the Used EVs these days. ~$14,000 + tax.
https://leafrepairnetwork.com/
This is a topic I'm passionate about and would be happy to chat about any time. Just reach out to my shop 608-729-4082
EDIT: I see that the site Haldir linked to is focused on selling Used EVS. A cynical person might say that it makes sense why they may be (inadvertently/incorrectly?) under-reporting the actual price of replacement batteries. If people knew the actual price $$$$$ they may be less likely to buy a Used EV. Hopefully it was simply oversight and they just need to update the article with current data. I notice the article is not dated, and doesn't have dated citations, so they may be operating off of old assumptions.
That article is posting cost numbers with no actual citations of when and where they are getting those numbers from.
Those numbers are definitely incorrect. Waaaaayyyyy too low.
Now, it is true that back in 2014 when Nissan was in the middle of a Public Relations nightmare, they did, for a very brief time, install 24 kWh packs for under $6,000. But no way was that sustainable. That program went away one the PR kerfuffle went away.
Your reply from the dealership is much more based in the current reality.
As an EV shop, I am getting quoted ~$10,000 just for the part (24 kWh 85 miles) when buying from the Nissan parts department. Retail markup and labor would be additional.
Also, as you noted, no way is the Nissan dealership ever going to put a larger battery in a 24 kWh car. Nope.
In addition, generally you need to return a core the same size as what you purchase from them.
While Greentec is offering to put Degraded packs into people's cars, they *are not putting in OEM New packs/cells*. Read the fine print closely that states the amount of degradation you can expect on the packs they install. Also look closely at the caveats where they limit the amount Quick Charges you can do (no more than once a month I think), else you void your warranty. Ouch. There's even more "gotchas", but I'll leave you to read their info.
At independent Leaf Repair Network shops like mine, they can install the aftermarket LRN 40 kWh battery for the Nissan Leaf into your 24 kWh 2015.
- All New cells
- 150 mile range
- 3 year/36,000 mile part warranty
But the cost is more than some of the Used EVs these days. ~$14,000 + tax.
https://leafrepairnetwork.com/
This is a topic I'm passionate about and would be happy to chat about any time. Just reach out to my shop 608-729-4082
EDIT: I see that the site Haldir linked to is focused on selling Used EVS. A cynical person might say that it makes sense why they may be (inadvertently/incorrectly?) under-reporting the actual price of replacement batteries. If people knew the actual price $$$$$ they may be less likely to buy a Used EV. Hopefully it was simply oversight and they just need to update the article with current data. I notice the article is not dated, and doesn't have dated citations, so they may be operating off of old assumptions.
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The way I see it, there are two general groups of Leaf owners, those that bought them new, and paid full price less the tax credit, and those that bought them used.
The ones that paid upfront, I have some sympathy for, but many of these took care from the start to maximize battery life, and with some luck, will see a good long battery life, and can decide for themselves if or when it makes sense to buy a new battery
The other group (which I am a member) bought used, and as such have no idea how well or not the battery was treated before we got it. That is a known risk buying used.
I think were most go wrong is they find used electrics are cheaper and have fewer miles on them then comparable ICE cars, and along with the electric's cheap operating cost expect any major work will also be as cheap. That is not so. When I was looking, to find say a Prius, which has comparable operating costs, may be a little higher, I would either have to pay double or more to get the same year/mileage car or go 10 years or more older and double or more miles on the car. Now that they suddenly find it costs more than they paid for the car to replace the battery, and say it is not worth it! While that is one way to look at it, another is to say you got to try the car for several years, for cheap and now you need to add in the differance it would have cost to by the Prius with similar age and miles.
I hope to get several years of "test driving" in before I have to decide if I want to pony up the remaining $13K to keep the car for the foreseeable future or buy something else.
I chose the Prius for comparison, as it is of similar size and cost to operate, but they too have traction batteries that can need to be replaced, and also a gas engine that can go bad at high miles just like any other ICE car. Would you rather replace the engine in a Prius with 300,000 miles or a traction battery on a Leaf with under 200,000 miles is the question you should be asking?
The Prius is more versatile and would be a better choice for a one car family, but those that need to rely on one car also would be better served with a low mileage ($$$$) unit.
In short it is the old "Pay me now, or pay me later" situation. Only you can decide what is best for you, but don't be surprised that you are going to have to pay one way or the other.
I think those that looked at used purchase price alone, are the ones most likely to be disappointed down the road when they find it isn't the only cost to owning the car.
The ones that paid upfront, I have some sympathy for, but many of these took care from the start to maximize battery life, and with some luck, will see a good long battery life, and can decide for themselves if or when it makes sense to buy a new battery
The other group (which I am a member) bought used, and as such have no idea how well or not the battery was treated before we got it. That is a known risk buying used.
I think were most go wrong is they find used electrics are cheaper and have fewer miles on them then comparable ICE cars, and along with the electric's cheap operating cost expect any major work will also be as cheap. That is not so. When I was looking, to find say a Prius, which has comparable operating costs, may be a little higher, I would either have to pay double or more to get the same year/mileage car or go 10 years or more older and double or more miles on the car. Now that they suddenly find it costs more than they paid for the car to replace the battery, and say it is not worth it! While that is one way to look at it, another is to say you got to try the car for several years, for cheap and now you need to add in the differance it would have cost to by the Prius with similar age and miles.
I hope to get several years of "test driving" in before I have to decide if I want to pony up the remaining $13K to keep the car for the foreseeable future or buy something else.
I chose the Prius for comparison, as it is of similar size and cost to operate, but they too have traction batteries that can need to be replaced, and also a gas engine that can go bad at high miles just like any other ICE car. Would you rather replace the engine in a Prius with 300,000 miles or a traction battery on a Leaf with under 200,000 miles is the question you should be asking?
The Prius is more versatile and would be a better choice for a one car family, but those that need to rely on one car also would be better served with a low mileage ($$$$) unit.
In short it is the old "Pay me now, or pay me later" situation. Only you can decide what is best for you, but don't be surprised that you are going to have to pay one way or the other.
I think those that looked at used purchase price alone, are the ones most likely to be disappointed down the road when they find it isn't the only cost to owning the car.
Nissan Battery Replacement Open? https://www.google.com/search?q=cha...ate=ive&vld=cid:a2c9f239,vid:UiM0JQC4C0c,st:0
cwerdna
Well-known member
I've never even heard of the article the OP pointed to. I only skimmed it also have no idea where they got them from. They're definitely wrong. I've never heard of prices that low for new replacements packs from a Nissan parts dept.
https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/update-on-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement.17168/ was true long ago. And, at some points after that, Nissan was helping some folks out (in terms of cost) who were past capacity warranty but that help ended YEARS ago. I've NOT heard any indication that Nissan's 24 kWh pack prices have gone down. Instead, they've seemingly gone up.
Nissan dealers by policy will not install a larger pack than what the vehicle came with. It's been a long standing policy and there isn't even any procedure for dealers to follow. The only exception is them installing 40 kWh packs as replacements for 30 kWh packs (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf) but that seems to have come to a halt.
Here in Ireland my friend got a 40kW battery system installed for €5,000.- and got to keep the old batteries to use as extra storage for his Pav system.
rsbrax
Active member
Can you provide details of the warranty for LRN 40 kWh battery? Would like to have LeafSpy metrics stated in the warranty such as SOH and weak/bad cell warning.
EVPowers
Well-known member
It is a warranty against manufacturing defects. No LeafSpy metrics mentioned. But currently LeafSpy is often one of the tools used when assessing customer's Leafs.
LarryKaplan
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2019
- Messages
- 36
Yes, the Leaf traction battery aftermarket is definitely the Wild West here in the US. I have also researched GreenTec and the fact that they offer batteries at 85% and have limits on QC's is an issue.
BTW, my understanding is that Nissan no longer stocks 24's, and they will put a 30 in an older Leaf. But will only put a 40 in a 2nd generation Leaf. Some say that putting a 40 in a 1st Gen Leaf eventually leads to problems.
I replaced my 2012's original battery with a refurbished 30 from an aftermarket shop here in So CA and it was NOT cheap, nor did I ever get the full range of a new battery (more like 90%). Fortunately, the installer warranteed his work after I lost 3 bars within one year, but I've had to do it 3 times in 3 years!
Right now I have a 30 with 70% SOH and 9 bars (I am waiting to get an appointment for my 3rd warranty installation now), and get about 75 miles of range, which is plenty for my needs. Good for in-town, not for road trips. Otherwise a wonderful car.
BTW, my understanding is that Nissan no longer stocks 24's, and they will put a 30 in an older Leaf. But will only put a 40 in a 2nd generation Leaf. Some say that putting a 40 in a 1st Gen Leaf eventually leads to problems.
I replaced my 2012's original battery with a refurbished 30 from an aftermarket shop here in So CA and it was NOT cheap, nor did I ever get the full range of a new battery (more like 90%). Fortunately, the installer warranteed his work after I lost 3 bars within one year, but I've had to do it 3 times in 3 years!
Right now I have a 30 with 70% SOH and 9 bars (I am waiting to get an appointment for my 3rd warranty installation now), and get about 75 miles of range, which is plenty for my needs. Good for in-town, not for road trips. Otherwise a wonderful car.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Have never heard of Nissan putting in 30 kWh packs in 24 kWh Leafs. Folks including at a Nissan EVent many years ago (when the 30 kWh pack was still around and possibly still the largest) asked the Nissan corporate marketing guy about this. People wanted to be able to pay the difference and get a 30 kWh pack installed instead of 24.
Answer was no. I posted about before: https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/the-40kwh-battery-topic.25773/page-6#post-542726.
This topic also came up in the media long ago. See https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/16...ibility-and-warranty.19890/page-8#post-440923. Article link's dead but there's a copy at https://web.archive.org/web/2016070...-the-old-leaf-but-with-more-range-if-you-pay/. Was also mentioned at https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/the-battery-replacement-thread.14102/page-28#post-436427.
And, per NTB20-001 https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf, 30 kWh pack was discontinued as of 1/7/2020, if not earlier.
And, plenty of folks with 30 kWh packs that need replacement (e.g. due to hitting 8 bars) aren't receiving any replacement packs (they would've put in a 40 kWh) and instead receiving buybacks: https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/the-battery-replacement-buyback-thread.34237/. If 30 kWh packs were available, don't you think Nissan would be putting those in instead?
Have never heard this before.
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not kW.
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rsbrax
Active member
How would manufacturing defects be determined during the warranty coverage period?
Dooglas
Well-known member
Then there are those who tried to play the battery pack lottery by trying to seek out a LEAF which was about to qualify for a warranty replacement. For some that actually worked and they ended up with a new battery (maybe even a new 40kwh to replace their depleted 30kwh). Others found out that replacement battery packs were in short supply or backordered and warranty claims could easily drag on for many months, or that Nissan was starting to use refurbished batteries for warranty replacements (as actually stated in the battery warranty). This was clearly a gamble at best. Most of us probably don't need the hassle - at least not the hassle of intentionally doing this to yourself.
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thew
Well-known member
its almost 14k in Oregon now and over a year wait for a new pack with no ETA from Nissan after you pay for it.
Dooglas
Well-known member
You need to start with the understanding that battery degradation (loss of battery capacity) is not a manufacturing defect. Lithium ion batteries do degrade through time and use. The Nissan battery warranty protects the buyer from rapid loss of capacity inside the 8 year / 100K mile period. Actual manufacturing defects could include a range of physical or electrical failures within the battery pack (or other components of the vehicle). These are determined by electrical measurements and physical examination. Some faults will produce error codes when detected by the electronic BMS of the vehicle. A possible one is the failure of one or more cells within the battery, That is determined by electronic testing by Nissan (weak cells can also be detected by LeafSpy).
rsbrax
Active member
Good response for Nissan HV battery warranty. I am trying to get an answer concerning LRN HV battery warranty. If it is the same as Nissan then I would like to know that before making a decision on upgrade for my 2012 Leaf SL
I'm sure it is not the same as Nissan's warranty. I think the best you can do is ask for references from someone who has had it done, and is willing to share their experience.
When someone gets a rebuilt engine or transmission they don't get the 5 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty the car came with new either. There is often a warranty and it is less.
If a place is selling battery packs that degrade after one year, they will not be around long and the reputation will soon be known. Even Nissan's replacements don't get the same warranty that the new cars do. If you buy a replacement pack from Nissan, you don't get another 8 year degradation warranty as far as I know. I think you get a 1 year warranty but could be wrong. That is if you can even get a Nissan battery.
When someone gets a rebuilt engine or transmission they don't get the 5 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty the car came with new either. There is often a warranty and it is less.
If a place is selling battery packs that degrade after one year, they will not be around long and the reputation will soon be known. Even Nissan's replacements don't get the same warranty that the new cars do. If you buy a replacement pack from Nissan, you don't get another 8 year degradation warranty as far as I know. I think you get a 1 year warranty but could be wrong. That is if you can even get a Nissan battery.
tony17112acst
Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2022
- Messages
- 24
Haldir: Why pay $13,000 for a battery when you can get a 2022 SV + plus for $15,000 after the $4,000 used EV car tax credit?
I just got mine for $19k and $15k after the $4k deduction. It's like new, has only 20,000 miles on it and it's a certified Pre-owned, so I have a warranty up to 100,000 miles too! Plus I have the original bumper-to-bumper warranty for a year or so since the miles are so low.
If you get an S or a non-plus, you'll be paying $13k or less. The battery range will beat the $13,000 battery replacement too.
I just got mine for $19k and $15k after the $4k deduction. It's like new, has only 20,000 miles on it and it's a certified Pre-owned, so I have a warranty up to 100,000 miles too! Plus I have the original bumper-to-bumper warranty for a year or so since the miles are so low.
If you get an S or a non-plus, you'll be paying $13k or less. The battery range will beat the $13,000 battery replacement too.
rsbrax
Active member
That decision certainly is under consideration in my case. Glad you found that deal on a used Leaf and hopefully have no trouble with it.
My 2012 Leaf is in good shape based on 10 year maintenance except for battery degradation. So I know what I have.
I have not found a "good" deal on a used Leaf locally and do not want to use Carvana. Also, not sure I would qualify for the used EV tax credit.
haldir: Did not mean to hijack your post. I have a very similar situation with the same questions.
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