13 key questions about Leaf battery and purchasing.

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mwalsh

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The Nissan Leaf Battery Pack

What’s the advantage of producing the batteries in Smyrna?

The battery pack is expensive to ship. Local production reduces logistics cost, protects the company from currency fluctuations, and brings jobs to the United States. The DOE loan helped make it happen quicker.

How long will the battery pack last?

After 10 years, 70 to 80 percent of the pack’s capacity will be left. The exact amount will depend on how much (440-volt) fast charging is done—as well as environmental factors, such as extreme hot weather, which is tough on the battery.

Can customers upgrade the battery pack at that point?

Too early to tell, but the possibility exists—largely because the old battery may have a secondary use for stationary purposes, such as storing energy from solar panels. Nissan is in discussion with a number of utilities and other companies about secondary use. Yet, some customers may want to keep running their batteries even at 70 percent capacity.

What’s the latest progress on DC fast chargers? [These chargers can juice up the Leaf battery pack to 80 percent in about 30 minutes.]

Nissan engineers have reduced the cost to about $17,000, based on re-engineering for simplicity, as well as scale manufacturing. The company believes it can reduce the costs further. The current Leaf DC fast charger is built to Japanese standards, and has not yet been UL certified for North America. Nissan’s lower cost on a quick charger is big news, because most rapid chargers have been priced around $50,000.

Will the DC fast chargers degrade the battery faster?

If fast charging is the primary way that a Leaf owner recharges, then the gradual capacity loss is about 10 percent more than 220-volt charging. In other words, it will bring the capacity loss closer to 70 percent after 10 years.

Will there be a driver-controlled setting to increase regenerative braking?

Yes, it’s called Eco mode. This mode will also limit acceleration to some degree. The car doesn’t offer the ability to shift to low or “B.” Eco mode will be calibrated to minimize a “grabby” feel related to regenerative braking.

What’s the warranty on the Nissan Leaf battery?

It hasn’t been announced yet. Under California emissions laws, the Chevy Volt’s battery pack is regulated to have warranty coverage up to 100,000 miles. But the Leaf is a zero emission vehicle, and therefore is not subject to the same oversight. (Yet, we anticipate the Nissan will at least match competitors for warranty.)

Will the next-generation Leaf battery pack have much longer range?

Nissan is anticipating an improvement in capacity at about 8 to 10 percent year over year. This improvement could be applied to greater range or reducing the cost. If customers indicate that they are satisfied with 100 miles range, then future battery packs may be smaller with fewer cells, and therefore cheaper.



Nissan Leaf Ordering Process

Will Nissan allow dealers to gouge Leaf customers?

The customers have the ability to choose any local dealer—and avoid dealers charging hefty mark-up feeds.

What’s the schedule for test-driving and taking delivery of the car?

Test-drives will happen this fall, during an extensive nation-wide tour. For the first two years, the Leaf will be produced in Japan. Production begins there in September. Deliveries to U.S. dealership will take place beginning in December.

Is Nissan sold out of the Leaf for the first year?

Maybe, but that’s only for the company’s fiscal year which ends in March. Nissan has the capacity to produce and deliver about 12,000 Leaf vehicles between now and the end of March 2011. Nissan continues to take orders for the Leaf.

Will Nissan allow selling or trading registrations, locally or out-of-state?

People will be discouraged from selling their reservation spot. Trading reservations to interested customers out-of-state will be allowed. Nissan will fully inform customers outside the official first markets that they will be driving without the benefit of the charging stations installed in those initial markets in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Tennessee. Therefore, those customers will need to be comfortable with relying exclusively on home charging. Service from Nissan dealers may also be an issue.

Besides the Leaf, what other future electric vehicles will be offered?

Nissan’s next electric car will be a light commercial delivery vehicle, followed by an Infiniti EV. Timing has not been announced. Nissan will produce a fourth electric car, but has not yet divulged any details—although it will not be an electric version of an existing Nissan vehicle.
 
Is anyone else getting the feeling this pack is actually much bigger than 24kWh?
From the same article:
Weight of pack: 300 kilograms (660 pounds)
Amount of lithium in the pack: 4 grams
Weight of the Nissan Leaf: Approx. 3,500 pounds
With that weight and NIssan's optimism about pack longevity, I'm thinking this is more
like a 30kWh pack which puts it > 100Wh/kg (before pack hardware). This seems reasonable.
Also, notice the overall weight is quite high.

This also jives a little with the Bloomberg quote from the AESC guy when discussing the $9k/pack price or $370/kWh: “Our target is a lot tougher” than $370, Otsuka said in an interview yesterday at AESC’s headquarters...
It is a lot tougher if the pack he's talking about is $9k/30kWh rather than 24kWh.
Just wondering.
p.s. Yeah the 4 grams of Lithium is a typo... 4kg seems right.
 
mwalsh said:
Will Nissan allow selling or trading registrations, locally or out-of-state?

People will be discouraged from selling their reservation spot. Trading reservations to interested customers out-of-state will be allowed. Nissan will fully inform customers outside the official first markets that they will be driving without the benefit of the charging stations installed in those initial markets in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Tennessee. Therefore, those customers will need to be comfortable with relying exclusively on home charging. Service from Nissan dealers may also be an issue.

I guess some people will be excited about this !
 
sparky said:
Is anyone else getting the feeling this pack is actually much bigger than 24kWh?
From the same article:
Weight of pack: 300 kilograms (660 pounds)
Amount of lithium in the pack: 4 grams
Weight of the Nissan Leaf: Approx. 3,500 pounds
With that weight and NIssan's optimism about pack longevity, I'm thinking this is more
like a 30kWh pack which puts it > 100Wh/kg (before pack hardware). This seems reasonable.
Also, notice the overall weight is quite high.

This also jives a little with the Bloomberg quote from the AESC guy when discussing the $9k/pack price or $370/kWh: “Our target is a lot tougher” than $370, Otsuka said in an interview yesterday at AESC’s headquarters...
It is a lot tougher if the pack he's talking about is $9k/30kWh rather than 24kWh.
Just wondering.
p.s. Yeah the 4 grams of Lithium is a typo... 4kg seems right.



The overall weight being high only means the car is still to heavy, it tells you nothing else. The pack weight is the pack weight as stated and it may include quite a bit of packaging. The leaf is very heavy for an EV with the pack subtracted.
 
EVDRIVER said:
The overall weight being high only means the car is still to heavy, it tells you nothing else. The pack weight is the pack weight as stated and it may include quite a bit of packaging. The leaf is very heavy for an EV with the pack subtracted.
When I'm in conjecture mode, the "too heavy" overall weight tells me that Nissan designed this car to be a safe and profitable first entry into a radically new market. They leveraged what they had; low-cost, good energy, reliable battery; and told the designers not to stretch anywhere else.
Basically: Make the car big enough for 5, don't blow the crash testing, don't make the pack structural, if you need to grow the weight to meet the schedule, do it.
The LA4 test is lots of delta-v. The vehicle is heavy. If they made it over 100 mi without sweating the pack depletion then I'm just wondering if that's an indicator the pack is quite a bit larger than 24kWh.
Just my WAG.
 
I was impressed when I saw the LEAF battery pack. The lithium-ion iron phosphate cells are very thin layers - it reminded me of thinly rolled pastry, about 7" x 11" in size. Each cell is its own sealed foil packet and then around eight of these are slotted into a metal case to produce a single 'battery'. The result is bulky and comparatively heavy, but the mass of each cell within the battery is low. This should minimize problems with overheating in hot climates and should reduce the problems on a battery pack if there is a rogue cell within the pack.

I'm not privy to the technical details of the battery management system (and if I were, I would have quite rightly been made to sign a non-disclosure agreement) and so I cannot comment on redundancy, fallback, temperature management and isolation techniques that Nissan have employed. However, having seen what I have, I am pretty confident that Nissan have a very good pack design.

Engineers will know what I mean when something 'feels' right. The battery pack design felt right to me. I wish I had access to this battery pack technology back when I was working with lithium-ion battery pack management systems back in the 1990s. If I had, I'd rule the world by now :lol:

I would be surprised if the pack size is bigger than what Nissan are saying it is. 24kWh 'feels' about right for the size, performance and range. Last year I was involved with a company working on a 3.5 tonne electric commercial vehicle and that vehicle could travel around 100 miles on a 28.8kWh pack.
 
Minor Correction, I believe:
Four flat cells (described as 33 Ah each) per module, and 48 modules in the LEAF's pack.
And, the cells are not the now-popular LiFePO4 chemistry but apparently Nissan's variation of a LiMn chemistry.
 
For my money they could have added four more modules and had the back seat passengers scrunch up some! :lol:

leaf-grndbrk-03-630.jpg
 
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