'16 30 kWh pack - backwards compatibility and warranty?

[nerys]

sounds like copout BS to me

I don't CARE about homologation (definition below)

I don't care if the gom goes "nuts" and displays nothing. its not like I use it anyway.

as long as the system can read how much juice is left in leaf spy and this should come from the BMS so that information should be fine "I AM HAPPY"

I Just want that wee bit more range. well a LOT more range for me (17.5mfu I believe is my batteries true capacity it jives with my efficiency and actual real world range)

so for me bumping up to 26mfu would be simply HUGE. full heat all the way to work any temperature for starters pretty much no need for a backup car at work anymore

Homologation (from the verb homologate, meaning "to approve or confirm officially") is the process of certifying or approving a product to indicate that it meets regulatory standards and specifications, such as safety and technical requirements.

mfu = magical fairy units

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Why do you keep getting your units wrong?

On homologation from TTAC:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/12/how-much-does-homologation-really-cost/

 

[nerys]

I did not get them wrong. I elected not to use them at all and simply used KW leaving any additional characters "not present" for you to fill in as you desire any god damned way you desire. I already told you this is how I am going to do it from now on.

in fact. I got a better idea.

 

[cwerdna]

I did not get them wrong. I elected not to use them at all and simply used KW leaving any additional characters "not present" for you to fill in as you desire any god damned way you desire. I already told you this is how I am going to do it from now on.

in fact. I got a better idea.

You did get it wrong. Battery capacity is measured in kWh, just like the way the electricity coming from your electric utility is metered. (You might also have demand charges, in kW, but those seem rare on residential plans.)

 

[GetOffYourGas]

sounds like copout BS to me

I don't CARE about homologation (definition below)

I don't care if the gom goes "nuts" and displays nothing. its not like I use it anyway.

as long as the system can read how much juice is left in leaf spy and this should come from the BMS so that information should be fine "I AM HAPPY"

I Just want that wee bit more range. well a LOT more range for me (17.5mfu I believe is my batteries true capacity it jives with my efficiency and actual real world range)

so for me bumping up to 26mfu would be simply HUGE. full heat all the way to work any temperature for starters pretty much no need for a backup car at work anymore

Homologation (from the verb homologate, meaning "to approve or confirm officially") is the process of certifying or approving a product to indicate that it meets regulatory standards and specifications, such as safety and technical requirements.

mfu = magical fairy units

I hope you realize that Nissan would never sell a part which requires a third-party plugin like Leaf Spy to operate.

Besides, Nissan has changed their mind before, and could do so again.

Let me throw out another possibility (pulled from thin air, so don't hold this is a "prediction" as it were). The 30kWh battery (sorry, 30mfu) is a stop-gap for the second generation Leaf. When a 45-50 kWh battery is available, who would want only 30, especially if you are paying out of pocket? What if Nissan comes back in 2017 and announces that all 2011-2016 Leaf owners can now buy a brand new 45kWh pack with LG Chem tech in it? Would it have been worth homologating the 30kWh pack?

Basically the technology is changing too fast for them to work on making every iteration backwards compatible. If they did that, they would fall behind in implementing the next big thing.

 

[sub3marathonman]

I think they will. In fact, I think they may offer no other option than a 30-kWh upgrade in the future simply because they will no longer have a source for the 24-kWh battery.

Of course, this may all be wishful thinking on my part.

I think they will as well, but by the time they do you and I might be the only ones paying attention.

Say they do it in 2020 when Tesla Model 3 is out, Volt 2 or 3 is out, Chevy Bolt is out, Nissan Leaf 2 is out (with say a 48 kWh top option and a 36 kWh base).

We could come back here and say "See, I told you so" but the majority of the forum will ignore us and be arguing about the newer cars.

Someone puts a 30 kWh battery in a 2012 and someone else says "So, that isn't enough range for me, I won't buy a car with less than 48 kWh." and off they go ignoring us old timers.

As a previous owner of a 1997 S10EV (GM), who found it absolutely impossible to get the PbA replacement batteries for it, and even while GM was going bankrupt they absolutely refused to take $10K for the inferior batteries that they had but which would fit, what I'm wondering is will it be another case of a perfectly good vehicle left dead because there is no way to replace the batteries?

 

[TimLee]

Homologation could even require crash test modeling and physical crash testing of the vehicle with the 30 kWh pack.

In a recent seminar on CNG, propane, and LNG trucks learned that the crash modeling and testing can easily be over $2 million dollars.
They design the retrofit, do computer modeling to prove design is OK, and then do the physical crash test.

Could they just depend on the modeling? They probably could, but in the risk averse world no one will.

Could Nissan elect to not do crash testing of a 30 kWh retrofit?

Probably could.

But Nissan is risk averse to even fixing simple defects on the 2011 / 2012 LEAF, like unwilling to provide fix for no heater off button.

So they are so risk averse they probably would not take any risk on a 30 kWh retrofit. And they do not see any profit on doing it.

Back fitting the heat resistant battery to 2011 / 2012 they probably saw that as unavoidable from a business marketing perspective.

The 30 kWh retrofit is an entirely different business analysis.

 

[nerys]

Its a battery. Not a new frame or new engine or even a different shape. Its in the same damned casing.

The 45mfu battery is invalid. It wont fit

The new one they have now will. I would bet a nice sum its a drop in plug and play fit too.

Is the bms in the pack or outside?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The 45mfu battery is invalid. It wont fit

While I assumed this would be the case, it's nice to hear from a Nissan engineer that this is true.

 

[RegGuheert]

Is the bms in the pack or outside?

Inside.

 

[edatoakrun]

https://transportevolved.com/2015/10/19/first-drive-report-2016-euro-spec-nissan-leaf-like-the-old-leaf-but-with-more-range-if-you-pay/ states:

Contrary to previous reports Nissan engineers told us during the launch event that the new 30kWh pack could, technically, be fitted to the previous generation of LEAF electric cars as the charging system, motor, controller, and suspension are all identical to the 2013 LEAF.

However, Nissan stated that each car would have to individually undergo homologation, an expensive and time consuming process that it felt would not be worth the effort for owners when added to the cost of the new battery pack. As a consequence, no upgrade path is being offered right now.

Two words worth emphasizing, IMO.

I'd also expect that if Nissan decides not to offer this upgrade, other parties probably will, eventually...

 

[nerys]

This is the reason the 45mfu mule is lifted and also low to the ground. To make enough physical space for the battery. Unless you are aware of some new magical battery tech with double the power density of current tech ?

So if the bms is inside then it really should be plug and play. Things like the gom might not read out correctly but nothing should freak out. Just display wrong data possibly.

 

[cliff]

The Nissan info said the quick charge would use more power, I do not remember how much, but this
might require a larger wire to the battery pack, and maybe a different connector, this could account
for the non-compatibility. From the video of the new modules, they appear to be direct drop in
replacements for the old right/left handed pair of modules.

 

[RegGuheert]

The Nissan info said the quick charge would use more power, I do not remember how much, but this
might require a larger wire to the battery pack, and maybe a different connector, this could account
for the non-compatibility.

Perhaps, but the BMS firmware could easily be written to ask the car which model year vehicle it is in and adjust the maximum charging current accordingly.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

This is the reason the 45mfu mule is lifted and also low to the ground. To make enough physical space for the battery. Unless you are aware of some new magical battery tech with double the power density of current tech ?

If this is directed at me...I don't know of any such tech that is near to production, but there are several possibilities under development. Time will tell which, if any, come to fruition. My original comment was just alluding to the possibility of a larger capacity pack in the future with some as-of-yet unknown or unproven tech. I wouldn't count out any possibility at this point.

 

[nerys]

I highly doubt some new fantastic tech will come out in the next 2 years. Would be nice though.

 

[Levenkay]

This is kind of a stretch, but there was this article about some new tech from LG Chem

 

[nerys]

soo. 3 4 or 5 years from now they MIGHT break ground on this US plant.

like I said. nothing fancy is likely to happen between now and 2017/2018

the solution to the battery problem is easy. BIGGER battery.

once theses car have a 300 mile range most issues simply cease to be an issue.

even if its winter at 0' and you have a resistance heater blasting at 75mph on the highway and 200,000 miles on the battery you are STILL going to get 140-150 miles of range.

the problem with the leaf is not the battery and its degradation (NOT counting hot weather issues in some parts of the country)

its not a LARGE enough battery. the car has "JUST" enough range brand new in the best of times.

nissan is simply biding their time until the price gets low enough to let them put a larger battery in the car without adding much if anything to the cost. nothing more.

at that point we just need to focus on bring the price down and recycling the old ones.

 

[ElectricEddy]

.

CEOs included

 

[TimLee]

Its a battery. Not a new frame or new engine or even a different shape. Its in the same damned casing.
...

But it weighs more.

Not likely to be significant, but with risk reduction revision that Tesla had to do, and as risk averse that all companies are particularly on safety; it is still very possible they might require crash testing.