2011 Leaf at constant "9 bars" so no help from Nissan

[SageBrush]

I've never been treated so badly as a customer as I was with Nissan Consumer Affairs .... We were one of the first customers to give the Leaf a try in 2011. We've only logged 33,000 miles on the car... So what's the value of a car that can't be used for a commute? Nothing. ... I would never buy another Leaf and certainly I would not put my trust in Nissan. They are terrible to customers. Just plain rude.

So 6 years and drove the car 33k miles (~5500 per year or about 1.5 miles per day), and they are worried about a car that can't be used to commute more than 40 mile per day?

The obvious answer is a desire to use the car a couple times a week. E.g., a 50 mile round trip twice a week. Or a shorter trip using heating or AC.

 

[JimSouCal]

I will remember all of this when I use my old standby flashlight that now has lithium batteries instead of alkaline, and the lithium batteries in the smoke detectors that seem to no longer need changing, or the numerous LEDs in my house in those legacy fixtures, or this 7 year old MacBook laptop ripping it up with a lighting fast SSD and current OS; speaking of which OS upgrades that continually push things along, and when Windows took out the bloat and older boxes did great... Or when I get better brush heads for my sonicare than when I bought it.

Nissan has loads of chances to use interchangeable components; it's a cultural and business aesthetic, not a fixed element of physics or changing technology. Form factor of cars have not changed much...

We can agree to differ... Fine with me...

The original LEAF is a fine seminal EV, but the lack of upgrade support is indicative of the ongoing application of the disposable model to car sales...

I'd like to comment as well on product upgrades.

Historically users of tech have had always expressed a desire for manufacturers to provide upgrade paths. At first glance, this seems like a reasonable request. The idea of upgrading a legacy product so that it can perform like the most current one is a good idea in itself, but the devil is in the details and the costs associated with the upgrade.

It turns out that almost universally upgrading a widget on a piece of hardware means upgrading all of the ancillary widgets that make the first widget work. Then there is the obsolescence of the widget that has been replaced by newer tech, which may not be easily compatible with the connection to legacy tech that is not being upgraded. Add to that costs and efforts with inventory, installation issues, training, marketing, support etc. What happens is that even if something can be upgraded, it ends up being unwieldy and unreliable and very expensive. The recent upgrade from 2G to 3G on the LEAF's infotainment system is a good example of how difficult it can be.

Then there is the issue of something called the "Take-Rate." In other words, how many of those that want the upgrade are actually going to pay what it costs to offer that upgrade? That is where things go south very quickly. Overhead for upgrades tend to be so expensive and have such a low take-rate that it is easier cheaper and better to acquire the latest version.

I don't see any indication that Nissan, VW, Hyundai, Ford, GM, FCA, Volvo, or even Tesla for their mainstream vehicles will be offering traction battery or any other hardware upgrades anytime soon for their existing fleets.

The speed that tech innovation moves today, especially with EVs, means that the only logical way to approach it is to accept that what you acquire today will be superseded by something better, faster, cheaper, more reliable in the next three or four years.

 

[bowthom]

None of the things I describe are unique to the LEAF, they are commonplace with all new technology. It's got nothing to do with foreseeing the future but rather is a natural part of innovation.

Leasing rather than buying early generation technology or assets that depreciates quickly because of innovation has been the norm quite literally for centuries.

Not paying attention when making a decision that goes bad is easily attributable to lies.

Klee is a great example of how unexpected results that can happen, especially for those that chose not to join the settlement class.

Try to remember, back then leased vehicles were taken away from the owners and crushed (EV1) and a lot of us had no intentions of letting that happen again. I bought mine because of that and because I expect to run this battery down to the nubs then replace it and run it down to the nubs again. By then I will have saved thousands in fuel costs more than covering the cost of the replacement battery. All I have to do is not total the thing to have it work out very well financially.

 

[GerryAZ]

Try to remember, back then leased vehicles were taken away from the owners and crushed (EV1) and a lot of us had no intentions of letting that happen again. I bought mine because of that and because I expect to run this battery down to the nubs then replace it and run it down to the nubs again. By then I will have saved thousands in fuel costs more than covering the cost of the replacement battery. All I have to do is not total the thing to have it work out very well financially.

+1

Also, lease rates in AZ were high. I fully intended to keep my 2011 for a long time. Nissan called me on the phone and asked me to take it to my dealer for tests so they could schedule a battery replacement long before I received any paperwork from the lawyers in the Klee case. Unfortunately, there were many cars coming off lease and driving the blue book value down so the other driver's insurance company declared the car a total loss instead of repairing it which resulted in only 15 months use from the new battery.