2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

[edatoakrun]

I am more impressed he is still on his original brake pads.

There's another thread on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if many LEAFs make it to 200k miles, on their OE pads.

Looks like your LBC reports are more-or-less typical for those of a 2011-12 MY LEAF.

What is your LEAF's build date?

Any history of where it was from, or when it lost the 12th bar?

Have you ever checked its recharge capacity in kWh from a low SOC point (LBW, VLBW, or turtle) to "100%"?

 

[edatoakrun]

Note to moderators.

Any reason not to consolidate these threads (and others)?

Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18269&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RLewisCA]

Well, I have a 2013 SL that I leased at the end of March 2013, so 2 summers. I live in San Dimas, CA, so somewhat hot here in the summer, but nothing like Phoenix. I'm now just shy of 24,000 miles, and just lost my first capacity bar yesterday.

For the first 20 months or so, I pretty much charged to 80% for my commute (48 miles round trip), and to 100% probably a couple times a week when I needed additional range. The car is garaged when at home, but did have to sit outside on blacktop at my office in Anaheim on the days I was in the office (average 2-3 days/week). I have a lifetime average of 4.4 mi./Kwh.

When I first took a LeafSpy reading in June 2014 (about 15 months after leasing) with 14,350 miles, I had a SOH of 97%. Now, less than 10,000 miles and 11 months later, I have a SOH of 84%. So, it held up very well for the first year plus, then a pretty steady decline over the course of the last 11 months. That second summer really had a significant effect.

Here's my original screenshot from June of last year:



And here is a link to the new one (notice no additional QC's):

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/s...ageBxrsPGFbNEPMs7_tcM?ref_=cd_share_link_copy

From a 100% charge, I can still get roughly 75 miles out of the battery until VLBW if I'm very careful, so not too bad. But definitely a noticeable drop in range from new. I'm a bit concerned about what's going to happen throughout and after this coming summer. I guess I'll see.

I really do enjoy driving electric, but I'm thinking that the Leaf just went about it the wrong way with no thermal control system on the battery. I see a lot of Volt owners with 2011's still getting 50 miles/charge after four years - probably a combination of a good thermal management system, and the overall percentage of capacity that is available for driving in a Volt. At any rate, with 50 'rated' miles in the 2016 Volt (and probably closer to 60 miles actual), I'm think that the 2016 Volt might be my next car when I turn in my Leaf next March. With the quick capacity degradation and the used values of Leafs, I'm just glad I leased and didn't buy this time around.

 

[dhanson865]

Well, I have a 2013 SL that I leased at the end of March 2013, so 2 summers. I live in San Dimas, CA, so somewhat hot here in the summer, but nothing like Phoenix. I'm now just shy of 24,000 miles, and just lost my first capacity bar yesterday.

For the first 20 months or so, I pretty much charged to 80% for my commute (48 miles round trip), and to 100% probably a couple times a week when I needed additional range. The car is garaged when at home, but did have to sit outside on blacktop at my office in Anaheim on the days I was in the office (average 2-3 days/week). I have a lifetime average of 4.4 mi./Kwh.

When I first took a LeafSpy reading in June 2014 (about 15 months after leasing) with 14,350 miles, I had a SOH of 97%. Now, less than 10,000 miles and 11 months later, I have a SOH of 84%. So, it held up very well for the first year plus, then a pretty steady decline over the course of the last 11 months. That second summer really had a significant effect.

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/s...ageBxrsPGFbNEPMs7_tcM?ref_=cd_share_link_copy

Thanks for the data, can you tell me the manufacturing date?

 

[DaveEV]

Note to moderators.

Any reason not to consolidate these threads (and others)?

Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18269&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good call, merged these two together.

 

[RLewisCA]

Thanks for the data, can you tell me the manufacturing date?

How would I go about finding that?

 

[dhanson865]

Thanks for the data, can you tell me the manufacturing date?

How would I go about finding that?

Open the drivers door and look for a sticker or metal plate somewhere near the center pillar. It should say the country of manufacture and the date of manufacture in addition to several other details about the car.

 

[RLewisCA]

Thanks for the info. It was manufactured 01/13.

 

[Valdemar]

Thanks for the info. It was manufactured 01/13.

This may be better than my 2011 in similar climate but not by much. My first bar went after 1.5 summers (September 2011 to May 2013) and 33,000 miles.

 

[TomT]

There was some conjecture that the 2013 battery was better... This would seem to put that to rest!

This may be better than my 2011 in similar climate but not by much. My first bar went after 1.5 summers (September 2011 to May 2013) and 33,000 miles.

 

[Valdemar]

There was some conjecture that the 2013 battery was better... This would seem to put that to rest!

This may be better than my 2011 in similar climate but not by much. My first bar went after 1.5 summers (September 2011 to May 2013) and 33,000 miles.

 

[dhanson865]

There was some conjecture that the 2013 battery was better... This would seem to put that to rest!

This may be better than my 2011 in similar climate but not by much. My first bar went after 1.5 summers (September 2011 to May 2013) and 33,000 miles.

Agreed, now we'll just have to wait 2 or 3 more years to know about 2015 battery packs.

 

[edatoakrun]

="dhanson865"

There was some conjecture that the 2013 battery was better... This would seem to put that to rest!

This may be better than my 2011 in similar climate but not by much. My first bar went after 1.5 summers (September 2011 to May 2013) and 33,000 miles.

Agreed...

So, do all of you think Nissan is lying, in the quote (below) I posted on page four?

Or do you think a 2011 LEAF driven under the same conditions would also still display 12 capacity bars?

I suggest, again, that anyone trying to monitor the actual battery capacity loss, of any LEAF from any MY, DO NOT rely on the LBC.

It is becoming clear that either there was a dramatic improvement in battery design ~with the 2013 MY, or (far more likely, IMO) the LBC was simply altered to report higher gids, and fewer capacity bar losses.

I wonder how long after (or before?) Andy Palmer was harangued by irate-gid-meter-wielding-LEAF-drivers in Phoenix in 2012, that the changes were made?

Given the performance noted below, You have to wonder if the Pessimistic Gauges, may now be overly optimistic...

Busy Wizzy Hits 100,000 Mile Landmark

The Nissan LEAF that sparked an electric taxi revolution in Cornwall has clocked up its 100,000th mile without losing a single bar of battery life*.

‘Wizzy' as it was named by St Austell-based operators C&C Taxis, hit the milestone in the course of more than 25,000 pure electric paying fares and having been rapid charged over 1,700 times.

The distance it's covered since entering service in July 2013 is equivalent to 100 round trips from the company's base in Cornwall to Glasgow, more than four times around the world or almost half the distance to the moon.

But, despite living the same punishing life as any modern day taxi, Wizzy retains near full battery health and, incredibly, is still on its first set of brake pads...

http://www.newsroom.nissan-europe.com/uk/en-gb/Media/Media.aspx?mediaid=132843" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As near as I can tell, most or all reports so far of gid and bar loss similar to 2011-12's to are of LEAFs built very early in 2013.

There is no reason to conclude that either an improved battery, a less-pessimistic gid readout (or both) started precisely at the 2013 MY change, but either or both of them could have come later.

Which could explain why the gid and bar loss reports for MY 2013-14 LEAFs on this thread seem (so far) to be coming in much slower than for the 2011-12s.

 

[Valdemar]

We'll know more by the end of the year. I don't know if it matters much, unless you are in the market for a used Leaf. I'm more interested in the 2015 battery, as, while unlikely, this is what I might be buying 2-3 years down the road.

 

[Phatcat73]

Ironically we have the same production date Leaf and purchased in the same month 3/2013. My Leaf has an extra 4000 miles over yours - 28k and AHr of 63.10 w SOH 96%

It's clear to see how our climate differences impact the battery over time. Good thing you leased.

Well, I have a 2013 SL that I leased at the end of March 2013, so 2 summers. I live in San Dimas, CA, so somewhat hot here in the summer, but nothing like Phoenix. I'm now just shy of 24,000 miles, and just lost my first capacity bar yesterday.

For the first 20 months or so, I pretty much charged to 80% for my commute (48 miles round trip), and to 100% probably a couple times a week when I needed additional range. The car is garaged when at home, but did have to sit outside on blacktop at my office in Anaheim on the days I was in the office (average 2-3 days/week). I have a lifetime average of 4.4 mi./Kwh.

When I first took a LeafSpy reading in June 2014 (about 15 months after leasing) with 14,350 miles, I had a SOH of 97%. Now, less than 10,000 miles and 11 months later, I have a SOH of 84%. So, it held up very well for the first year plus, then a pretty steady decline over the course of the last 11 months. That second summer really had a significant effect.

Here's my original screenshot from June of last year:



And here is a link to the new one (notice no additional QC's):

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/s...ageBxrsPGFbNEPMs7_tcM?ref_=cd_share_link_copy

From a 100% charge, I can still get roughly 75 miles out of the battery until VLBW if I'm very careful, so not too bad. But definitely a noticeable drop in range from new. I'm a bit concerned about what's going to happen throughout and after this coming summer. I guess I'll see.

I really do enjoy driving electric, but I'm thinking that the Leaf just went about it the wrong way with no thermal control system on the battery. I see a lot of Volt owners with 2011's still getting 50 miles/charge after four years - probably a combination of a good thermal management system, and the overall percentage of capacity that is available for driving in a Volt. At any rate, with 50 'rated' miles in the 2016 Volt (and probably closer to 60 miles actual), I'm think that the 2016 Volt might be my next car when I turn in my Leaf next March. With the quick capacity degradation and the used values of Leafs, I'm just glad I leased and didn't buy this time around.

 

[RLewisCA]

Couldn't agree more. It's the first time I have ever leased a car, but figured it would be a good idea. I was thinking more about how newer tech/longer range in newer models would impact the value of the car, rather than how quickly the battery would degrade, but either way I guess I covered myself to a degree by leasing.

As I said, I really do like driving electric, but in my climate it's clear to me that I need something that has a thermal management system for the battery built in. I don't really have enough confidence in the 'lizard battery', still with no way to actively manage temperature.

 

[TomT]

The Lizard battery (and its successors) better well hold up, and hold up just as well as any of the TMS packs from other manufacturers, or Nissan can write off the EV business! They will NOT get a third chance!

We'll know more by the end of the year. I don't know if it matters much, unless you are in the market for a used Leaf. I'm more interested in the 2015 battery, as, while unlikely, this is what I might be buying 2-3 years down the road.

 

[dhanson865]

So, do all of you think Nissan is lying, in the quote (below) I posted on page four?

You do realize it's much cooler in the UK than in the US don't you?

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/sw
The south-west peninsula forms the most southerly part of the British Isles. The sea which surrounds the area on three sides has the highest annual mean temperature of any sea area near to the UK, close to 11 to 12 °C.

(11c = 52F, 12c = 54F)

Compare that some of these average temps

Atlanta, GA Average temperature: 61.4°F / 16.35°C
San Diego, CA Average temperature: 63.65°F / 17.55°C
Los Angeles, CA Average temperature: 63.8°F / 17.65°C
Austin, TX Average temperature: 69.4°F / 20.75°C
Phoenix, AZ Average temperature: 75.05°F / 23.85°C

So no I don't think they lied when they said a car in a much cooler climate did better.

and Yes I think a 2011 would play nice in the UK and last much longer.

What part of heat kills the batteries have you not caught up with?

 

[dsatwork]

Well I'm one of those jumping into the EV market because the 2013 Leaf's are flooding the market at what I would consider a pretty good price. I bought mine last week a 2013 Leaf S model with the Quick Charge upgrade for $13,000 and 26,000 miles and all 12 bars showing in pretty much perfect condition. The LeafSpy app screen shot below indicates it has an SOH of 88% and after driving conservatively will tell me that I have an 80 mile range. I bought it because my office just put in two L2 chargers and as of this week there is only one other EV at my office. He's the main reason we have L2 charge ports other than the fact that the owner has a Tesla S model but he'll never need to charge at the office and he's only there one day a week anyhow. So the other EV coworker purchased a 2013 Leaf S model set up the same as mine but his only has 6K miles. I don't remember his SOH percentage but also had 12 bars and with both us at 100% charge his GID was 259 and mine was 250.So you can add this to the list of 2013 Leaf battery degradation numbers for whoever is keeping a running score.

doesn't look like the image is posting so here is the URL https://plus.google.com/u/0/105872574092415610528/posts/FUpWN3rG1Gc?pid=6154703435373652354&oid=105872574092415610528" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

So, do all of you think Nissan is lying, in the quote (below) I posted on page four?

You do realize it's much cooler in the UK than in the US don't you?..

What part of heat kills the batteries have you not caught up with?

And are you unaware of how severe use of a LEAF, in both kWh throughput and high kW charging, increases battery temperatures?

Just what US city's battery temperature for a LEAF with normal use, do you think this LEAF's battery temperature experience was comparable to, it being driven (on average) well over 4k miles per month, and receiving two or three DC charges (on average) each day?

Taylor SF's 2011 LEAF probably had a significantly cooler average battery temp, but it didn't make it to 80k with all 12 bars.

UPDATE: June 1 (2013) - I lost first bar last night at 78,600 miles.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12781&hilit=bar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;