2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh SV/SL, 24 kWh S

[asimba2]

I think it would be good, if they go that route, if Nissan followed Tesla's lead and had the capacity indicated in the model name (just as they themselves do with engine volume on cars like the Altima). Unfortunately, they would be seen by many as copying Tesla if they did it at this point and it would invite derision, even though it's genuinely useful.
Hopefully Nissan does the right thing for the current owners and offers 30kWh replacement batteries, but I suspect that battery production simply isn't there for them to do that yet.

Just as long as there's no fake capacity badges on the back as is so often the case with practically every German built automobile nowadays when it comes to engine displacement in the badging. e.g. BMW decides to go and rebadge the F30 335i the 340i since Mercedes slapped C400 onto the trunk of their 3.0L V6 powered C-Class which itself was done to outbadge the 335i...ugh.

Nissan is playing too. The 3.5L Infiniti G35 became the G37 when the powerplant was enlarged to 3.7L. The other day I saw an Infiniti Q60 and thought "wow, a 6.0L engine in an Infiniti!" Yeah, it's the same ol 3.7L.

 

[evnow]

I don't think the badging of capacity makes much sense - in the long run. You may be able to upgrade to higher capacity packs etc.

Afterall the whole idea of this kind of badge is to be able to charge more - and they can do that without badging.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

I don't think the badging of capacity makes much sense - in the long run. You may be able to upgrade to higher capacity packs etc.

Afterall the whole idea of this kind of badge is to be able to charge more - and they can do that without badging.

If they have upgrading in mind, then I agree.
I was also thinking that there could be something like an SL 50 and SL 60 (and maybe SV 50/SV 60) this way.

 

[bruddahmanmatt]

I think it would be good, if they go that route, if Nissan followed Tesla's lead and had the capacity indicated in the model name (just as they themselves do with engine volume on cars like the Altima). Unfortunately, they would be seen by many as copying Tesla if they did it at this point and it would invite derision, even though it's genuinely useful.
Hopefully Nissan does the right thing for the current owners and offers 30kWh replacement batteries, but I suspect that battery production simply isn't there for them to do that yet.

Just as long as there's no fake capacity badges on the back as is so often the case with practically every German built automobile nowadays when it comes to engine displacement in the badging. e.g. BMW decides to go and rebadge the F30 335i the 340i since Mercedes slapped C400 onto the trunk of their 3.0L V6 powered C-Class which itself was done to outbadge the 335i...ugh.

Nissan is playing too. The 3.5L Infiniti G35 became the G37 when the powerplant was enlarged to 3.7L. The other day I saw an Infiniti Q60 and thought "wow, a 6.0L engine in an Infiniti!" Yeah, it's the same ol 3.7L.

Actually from what I know, the reason Infiniti went and renamed their lineup was because their two biggest success stories (the G line and the FX) were becoming more well known than the Inifniti brand itself, therefore Infiniti actually sought to make their individual models more anonymous so that folks would begin to refer to their cars as "an Infiniti" which in turn is supposed to lead to increased brand awareness. It's the same way folks who drive a lease special 320i base base BMW walk around and talk about how "they drive a BMW" instead of describing their basic 320i. Infiniti wants folks to say "I drive an Infiniti" rather than say "I drive a G35".

FWIW, Infiniti's actually feature their correct engine displacement on the front fenders, the Q60 Coupe for example has 3.7 badges on its front wings. And TBH, with the way Americans are sooooo conscious of how big the numbers are on their
trunks, Infiniti would have had to have figured something out for their future products given the trend towards downsizing when it comes to engine displacement. A great example is the Z car. Everyone is speculating that the Z35 will receive some version of the 3.0L turbo V6 from the upcoming Q60 Coupe, but because 3.0L < 3.7L, no way Nissan badges the car 300Z because going from 370Z to 300Z will "look like a downgrade" to the badge conscious. As such, the car will likely simply be badged "Z" here in the states where the Fairlady moniker doesn't exist. It's stupid I know, blame the folks who care more about what others see on the outside rather than how the damn thing drives from the inside.

 

[bruddahmanmatt]

I don't think the badging of capacity makes much sense - in the long run. You may be able to upgrade to higher capacity packs etc.

Afterall the whole idea of this kind of badge is to be able to charge more - and they can do that without badging.

When it comes to badging, stranger things have been affixed to the rear ends of cars.

That said, I hope Nissan doesn't follow Tesla's lead here, otherwise manufacturers may be tempted to start attaching fuel capacity badges to the rear ends of their cars. Can you imagine someone bragging about how his "18 gallon is better than that lowly 12 gallon over there". Sounds like something straight outta Mad Max. :lol:

 

[tkdbrusco]

Nice -- the two battery sizes seems like a very nice transition to a larger battery down the road!

I'll theorize that the 24kWh is just software limited version of 30kWh.

I don't think its so simple as a software limited version. Here's why. (1) I think a manufacturer has to actually provide the stats on the kwh capacity in its battery. This probably has to do with EPA and business regulations. It would like an ICE car saying that it had a 2.0L engine and then later saying (just kidding, we actually have 2.4L!) (2) Why would you put in extra cells that you aren't advertising to the consumer and you still have to pay for, this doesn't make any sense from a business point of view. (3) Imagine the backlash from all of the MY15 owners who feel like they are being limited in the capacity use of their battery without any reason.

My guess is that this is what happened. First, Nissan developed a more dense cell with better chemistry and wanted to put it into use in their MY15 leafs. These more dense cells didn't need the same actual space as the old (11-14) cells, but they installed them in the same pack anyways, likely with a bit extra room inside or spacers between cells, etc... They then sent the MY15 cars out with the new packs (perhaps some of the MY14s had them too?) They waited around to hear how resilient they were in various situations, heat, mileage, etc... Once they had data that supported the improved chemistry, they decided to go forth with the new chemistry in a more densely built pack on the MY16, hence the 30kwh pack. They squeezed the cells in, removed the internal spacers, and there you have it! 30kwh pack in the same package.

My guess as to why they didn't just do this in 2015 was that they weren't 100% sure that the new chemistry would hold up in the field over time. They wanted some real data on that. They watched the blogs, took readings at dealers, and once they were sure that they would indeed hold up, they can apply the chemistry to a bigger pack. In the small chance that the packs didn't stand up to the elements, they would have likely forged ahead in 2016 with the same 24kwh pack and waited for a whole new design/chemistry in Leaf2.

 

[bruddahmanmatt]

I don't think its so simple as a software limited version. Here's why. (1) I think a manufacturer has to actually provide the stats on the kwh capacity in its battery. This probably has to do with EPA and business regulations. It would like an ICE car saying that it had a 2.0L engine and then later saying (just kidding, we actually have 2.4L!) (2) Why would you put in extra cells that you aren't advertising to the consumer and you still have to pay for, this doesn't make any sense from a business point of view. (3) Imagine the backlash from all of the MY15 owners who feel like they are being limited in the capacity use of their battery without any reason.

This already happens though. Not on official spec sheets but in terms of badging.

As for why they'd do it, it could be a case of economies of scale. For all we know it might actually be less expensive to manufacture one pack across the board and then software limit the lesser models. I remember when the Nissan V36 (2nd Gen G35/G37) was first released and folks who bought non-Sport models w/o paddle shifters soon found out that the wiring was already there for them beneath the plastic when they started taking their steering column trim apart. And from what I know, all that separates an E90 325i from an E90 330i are the intake, a tune and some of the axle back exhaust components. Marketing yo!

 

[tkdbrusco]

I don't think its so simple as a software limited version. Here's why. (1) I think a manufacturer has to actually provide the stats on the kwh capacity in its battery. This probably has to do with EPA and business regulations. It would like an ICE car saying that it had a 2.0L engine and then later saying (just kidding, we actually have 2.4L!) (2) Why would you put in extra cells that you aren't advertising to the consumer and you still have to pay for, this doesn't make any sense from a business point of view. (3) Imagine the backlash from all of the MY15 owners who feel like they are being limited in the capacity use of their battery without any reason.

This already happens though. Not on official spec sheets but in terms of badging.

Yes, the limiting happens as in they only let you use roughly 22kwh of your 24kwh pack, but they still advertise it as a 24kwh pack.

 

[nosuchthing]

There you have it: 2016 Nissan LEAF To Get 25% Larger Battery/More Range (EPA 105-110), New Colors

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-get-25-larger-battery/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The bad news: if you haven't dumped your '11->'13, the resale value of your Leaf is about to drop another 3 grand.

 

[edatoakrun]

The bad news: if you haven't dumped your '11->'13, the resale value of your Leaf is about to drop another 3 grand.

I expect your not the only one of the handful of Soul EV owners/lessees in a foul mood today...

 

[GRA]

The bad news: if you haven't dumped your '11->'13, the resale value of your Leaf is about to drop another 3 grand.

I expect your not the only one of the handful of Soul EV owners/lessees in a foul mood today...

I doubt that they're in a foul mood, as Soul EV owners know they have an extra 5 years/40k miles of 70% battery capacity warranty compared to the LEAF. The LEAF's range increase is useful, but certainly doesn't put to rest doubts about the long-term viability of the battery absent adequate real-world experience. Now, if Nissan were to improve the warranty as well as increase the battery size, that would be a different matter.

In any case, this is just an interim improvement while everyone waits for the gen 2 BEVs with significant range increases to arrive. It's certainly useful, but would have been a lot more dramatic if it had arrived in the 2013, 2014 or even 2015 MY instead of 2016. And we'll have to see what they do with pricing - I don't think they can charge significantly more for the battery and have good sales, so they'll probably have to drop the S MSRP and keep the SV/SL MSRP about the same.

 

[evnow]

I doubt that they're in a foul mood, as Soul EV owners know they have an extra 5 years/40k miles of 70% battery capacity warranty compared to the LEAF. The LEAF's range increase is useful, but certainly doesn't put to rest doubts about the long-term viability of the battery absent adequate real-world experience. Now, if Nissan were to improve the warranty as well as increase the battery size, that would be a different matter.

Anyone buying EVs not named Tesla at this stage are in a weird minority. Almost everyone leases.

Soul EV (atleast here, it looks like) is going to be significantly higher street priced - given low availability. Combined with smaller trunk - and tiny user base, the choice looks clear to me.

 

[dhanson865]

There you have it: 2016 Nissan LEAF To Get 25% Larger Battery/More Range (EPA 105-110), New Colors

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-get-25-larger-battery/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The bad news: if you haven't dumped your '11->'13, the resale value of your Leaf is about to drop another 3 grand.

Nice circular reference since it's very likely that story has the same source as this thread.

 

[abasile]

The bad news: if you haven't dumped your '11->'13, the resale value of your Leaf is about to drop another 3 grand.

The value of my 2011 has already dropped so far that I no longer really care. Hence my reluctance to put a lot more money into it, aside from basic maintenance.

 

[nosuchthing]

Foul mood not.
I lease...

 

[AlanSqB]

Anyone buying EVs not named Tesla at this stage are in a weird minority. Almost everyone leases.

Especially now that our "flagship" model will have exactly half of the capacity of Tesla's lowest capacity S model ever, 5 years after all this got started.

On one hand, it's nice to see that Nissan isn't just resting and that innovations are still happening. On the other, it's very frustrating to see that when my lease is up in another two years, my only viable option for a replacement that will allow me to finally get rid of the ICE is probably still going to be a Tesla.

 

[Sublime]

I wonder if the SV and SL will also get a bump in HP. I know different chemistries have different power densities, but if the new battery does have similar C ratings, the 2016 could be 100kW (134hp), if the power electronics can also handle it. It could also mean stronger regen, which might help the range rating slightly.

 

[dhanson865]

There you have it: 2016 Nissan LEAF To Get 25% Larger Battery/More Range (EPA 105-110), New Colors

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-get-25-larger-battery/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The bad news: if you haven't dumped your '11->'13, the resale value of your Leaf is about to drop another 3 grand.

Nice circular reference since it's very likely that story has the same source as this thread.

OK, I take it back.

Jay Cole
May 27, 2015 at 8:48 am

While we have firmly believed this has been in the cards for well over a year, the vague rumor started to pop up last week via a central US dealer, then on a forum post at Mynissanleaf.

We didn’t want to publish on that rumor as the news that a significant improvement was coming for the 2016 LEAF would certainly affect 2015 sales. If it turned out to be inaccurate, it would have be irresponsible of us.

However, we got a second confirmation direct from a dealer last night, so now we feel a responsibility to put the word out. Have to be extra careful about the process in these situations.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

30 kWh in the same space as the current 24 kWh pack is a decent upgrade in energy density.

FWIW, a 25% bump after 5 years is equivalent to an annualized exponential improvement of about 4.5% / year. This is lower than many had predicted (about 8% / year), but to be fair, Nissan was also spending time developing a more heat-tolerant chemistry, regardless of capacity improvements. This is exactly how I would expect improvements to pan out, though. Instead of every model year getting 4.5% more capacity than then previous year, I would expect to see a larger step forward after multiple years. This is at least the first sign that Nissan's EV market is maturing a little, in that improvements are getting rolled into new models. Of course, we have already seen this in the Volt, the Model S, and even the Roadster, so Nissan is really just playing catch-up (or maybe leap-frog?)

 

[evnow]

Especially now that our "flagship" model will have exactly half of the capacity of Tesla's lowest capacity S model ever, 5 years after all this got started.

OTOH, Tesla keeps increasing the price while Nissan keeps lowering the price.

On one hand, it's nice to see that Nissan isn't just resting and that innovations are still happening. On the other, it's very frustrating to see that when my lease is up in another two years, my only viable option for a replacement that will allow me to finally get rid of the ICE is probably still going to be a Tesla.

What makes you come to that conclusion ? Gen 2 will come out next year (MY17) - I expect Ghosn "Yes" to doubling the range to stand.