5 vs 8 yr warranty

[bjarthur]

anyone know why there is a difference in warranty between the 2016 24kWh and 30kWh batteries? do they have different chemistries?

"Lithium-ion Battery Gradual Capacity Loss:
In addition to the Lithium-ion Battery Coverage for defects in materials or workmanship (96 months/100,000 miles), the Nissan LEAF® Lithium-ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles with the 24kWh battery and 96 months or 100,000 miles with the 30kWh battery, whichever comes first. [*] See your Owner's Manual for tips on maximizing battery life and capacity."

 

[Roostre]

Size matters.

The larger battery will probably be less likely to cycled as many times per 1,000 miles. Lower depth of discharge, more miles per charge all add up to Nissan estimating a longer battery life.

So 6kwh = 3 years according to the Leaf engineering team

 

[knightmb]

Size matters.

The larger battery will probably be less likely to cycled as many times per 1,000 miles. Lower depth of discharge, more miles per charge all add up to Nissan estimating a longer battery life.

So 6kwh = 3 years according to the Leaf engineering team

That does make sense when comparing to the driving range of a 24 kW/h battery, but what if the person who buys has a longer drive (for work) and just ends up doing the same amount of charge cycles that the 24 kW/h owner has?

So the 24kWh owner drives to work and back 5 days a week and uses nearly 70% of the battery capacity.
The other 30kWh owner drives to work and back 5 days a week and uses nearly 70% of the battery capacity due to extended driving distance.

Is the 30kWh pack really going to last longer because the higher capacity is just extending the range of the owner?

 

[Valdemar]

I don't think it is only size and less cycling. There are many people here who live close to me and dropped 4 bars with almost twice as fewer miles as I had on my car when I lost mine over the same time.

 

[Roostre]

That does make sense when comparing to the driving range of a 24 kW/h battery, but what if the person who buys has a longer drive (for work) and just ends up doing the same amount of charge cycles that the 24 kW/h owner has?

So the 24kWh owner drives to work and back 5 days a week and uses nearly 70% of the battery capacity.
The other 30kWh owner drives to work and back 5 days a week and uses nearly 70% of the battery capacity due to extended driving distance.

Is the 30kWh pack really going to last longer because the higher capacity is just extending the range of the owner?

24*70%= 16.8
24-16.8= 7.2kwh left

30*70%=21
30-21=9kwh left

So, even at higher usage and going more miles per day you leave a bigger buffer.

 

[Roostre]

I don't think it is only size and less cycling. There are many people here who live close to me and dropped 4 bars with almost twice as fewer miles as I had on my car when I lost mine over the same time.

I suspect you are right. It is almost as if there is some material/purity/assembly factor that makes these batteries each unique individuals.

I'm sure the battery manufacturers are keen on finding this "X" factor.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Another possibility is that the 8/9 bar threshold is the same for both the 24 kWh and 30 kWh packs: around 42 Amp•hours. That would allow the 30 kWh pack to drop by almost half before triggering the warranty. No particular reason to assume that the Capacity Bars represent the same percentage of the pack size...

 

[Firetruck41]

Probably not just physics/chemistry at work here, but also marketing. It's an incentive for those purchasing the sv and sl models, while still providing a "bare bones" car (with "bare bones" battery warranty).

 

[Valdemar]

Another possibility is that the 8/9 bar threshold is the same for both the 24 kWh and 30 kWh packs: around 42 Amp•hours. That would allow the 30 kWh pack to drop by almost half before triggering the warranty. No particular reason to assume that the Capacity Bars represent the same percentage of the pack size...

A low blow in other words, but hey, given the history we know it is quite possible.

 

[GerryAZ]

Another possibility is that the 8/9 bar threshold is the same for both the 24 kWh and 30 kWh packs: around 42 Amp•hours. That would allow the 30 kWh pack to drop by almost half before triggering the warranty. No particular reason to assume that the Capacity Bars represent the same percentage of the pack size...

I almost posted a reply like this yesterday. I saw no reference to percentage when I read the capacity warranty for the 30 kWh battery on Nissan's web site.

Gerry

 

[Evoforce]

It also adds to my belief that these batteries are completely backward compatible despite what they are saying. They just want to use all of their available 30kWh batteries for the new cars going down the assembly line. They don't have enough for us 8 bar losers to even entertain getting them. In the future, they may (miraculously) have a software fix to use them in older cars.

 

[knightmb]

It also adds to my belief that these batteries are completely backward compatible despite what they are saying. They just want to use all of their available 30kWh batteries for the new cars going down the assembly line. They don't have enough for us 8 bar losers to even entertain getting them. In the future, they may (miraculously) have a software fix to use them in older cars.

Get enough funds together, we could all put together enough cash to purchase one with the 30 kWh battery (demo, crash, etc.) so that one of us can take it apart and try it out. Some members here already have Leaf systems broken down into parts that swapping the 30 kWh battery into as a test would be much easier than taking a new 24 kWh Leaf apart. :mrgreen:

Better yet, get a Lease vehicle and just remove the whole battery pack and wire it into a 24kWh Leaf up on lifts to see if it will function.

 

[Evoforce]

It also adds to my belief that these batteries are completely backward compatible despite what they are saying. They just want to use all of their available 30kWh batteries for the new cars going down the assembly line. They don't have enough for us 8 bar losers to even entertain getting them. In the future, they may (miraculously) have a software fix to use them in older cars.

Get enough funds together, we could all put together enough cash to purchase one with the 30 kWh battery (demo, crash, etc.) so that one of us can take it apart and try it out. Some members here already have Leaf systems broken down into parts that swapping the 30 kWh battery into as a test would be much easier than taking a new 24 kWh Leaf apart. :mrgreen:

Better yet, get a Lease vehicle and just remove the whole battery pack and wire it into a 24kWh Leaf up on lifts to see if it will function.

It would be great to absolutely know for sure, but they still wouldn't have enough produced to sell us (probably) and seemingly no desire either. And, remember their special controller programming card that they won't give us when changing out new batteries? So far, that makes it a double whammy! Or... does that make it a triple whammy?

 

[Jefe]

It would be great to absolutely know for sure, but they still wouldn't have enough produced to sell us (probably) and seemingly no desire either. And, remember their special controller programming card that they won't give us when changing out new batteries? So far, that makes it a double whammy! Or... does that make it a triple whammy?

Right now, no. but a few years down the road who knows. The 30kw battery may become the small one and producing the 24 is no longer cost effective for Nissan at all, so retrofitting warranty replacements with a 30kw might be far more cost effective due to the high volume produced.

 

[GRA]

Another possibility is that the 8/9 bar threshold is the same for both the 24 kWh and 30 kWh packs: around 42 Amp•hours. That would allow the 30 kWh pack to drop by almost half before triggering the warranty. No particular reason to assume that the Capacity Bars represent the same percentage of the pack size...

I almost posted a reply like this yesterday. I saw no reference to percentage when I read the capacity warranty for the 30 kWh battery on Nissan's web site.

Gerry

Uh huh, nary a mention of what % of capacity 8/9 bars represents, so worth less than the paper it's printed on - from Nissan's 2016 LEAF warranty booklet:

LITHIUM-ION BATTERY CAPACITY COVERAGE
In addition to the lithium-ion Battery Coverage for
defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-
ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss
below nine bars of capacity as shown on the
vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period
of 60 months or 60,000 miles, for vehicles
equipped with the 24 kWh battery or 96 months or
100,000 miles for vehicles equipped with the 30
kWh battery, whichever comes first.
This warranty covers any repairs needed to return
battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars
on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If
possible, the lithium-ion battery components will
be repaired or replaced, and the original lithium-
ion battery will be returned to the vehicle. If nec-
essary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with
either a new or remanufactured lithium-ion battery.
Any repair or replacement made under this
Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not
return your lithium-ion battery to an “as new” con-
dition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will
provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine
bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.
This Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage is
subject to the exclusions listed under the heading
“WHAT IS NOT COVERED.”