80% or 100% charge?

[csriram45]

I have a 52 mile round trip with most miles in freeway with frequent uphill and downhill. I charge to 80% everyday. Although this mean any errand after commute is not possible. How can one get a 90% charge? How are you guys controlling that?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The owner manual says that "to maximize the life of your battery, and to ensure that your bike is always ready for use, recharge the battery as soon as possible after every use. A lithium ion battery left in a discharged condition will deteriorate much faster than a fully charged battery." I would consider that 50% SOC is a discharged condition. While not a "DEEP" discharged condition, it's still a discharged condition nevertheless.

one of the BIGGEST gripes i have with a LOT OF new EV products is the perpetual BS they tell their customers to insure a "good" customer satisfaction level.

the statement you quoted is from that manufacturer and based solely on the limited range those batteries will provide UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES and is not what the very same battery manufacturers would recommend.

i had a Zenn, and pretty much got the exact same warning. after extensive battery issues, i skipped Zenn tech support (which was nearly clueless) and called the batttery manufacturer. after i READ to them what Zenn recommended, they straightened me out on proper battery management (after they stopped laughing that is!!)

your manufacturer told you to fully charge your batteries right away because they knew that a vehicle that does not go is owned by a customer that is not happy. on a device that has very little range when fully discharged, the standard advice is to always have a full battery so your range is always maximized. can t do that unless you are constantly charging

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have a 52 mile round trip with most miles in freeway with frequent uphill and downhill. I charge to 80% everyday. Although this mean any errand after commute is not possible. How can one get a 90% charge? How are you guys controlling that?

know your car. use the estimated charge time if you have to. i use 120 volt so its easy for me since a full charge is usually 10-12 hours or more. i just plug it in before going to bed, it only charges 7 hours or what ever i need.

realize there is no setting for 90%. you simply have to make it happen. hold on, let me check my level for this morning.
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ok, 92% good enough!!

 

[Volusiano]

The owner manual says that "to maximize the life of your battery, and to ensure that your bike is always ready for use, recharge the battery as soon as possible after every use. A lithium ion battery left in a discharged condition will deteriorate much faster than a fully charged battery." I would consider that 50% SOC is a discharged condition. While not a "DEEP" discharged condition, it's still a discharged condition nevertheless.

one of the BIGGEST gripes i have with a LOT OF new EV products is the perpetual BS they tell their customers to insure a "good" customer satisfaction level.

the statement you quoted is from that manufacturer and based solely on the limited range those batteries will provide UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES and is not what the very same battery manufacturers would recommend.

i had a Zenn, and pretty much got the exact same warning. after extensive battery issues, i skipped Zenn tech support (which was nearly clueless) and called the battery manufacturer. after i READ to them what Zenn recommended, they straightened me out on proper battery management (after they stopped laughing that is!!)

Can you share with us what battery chemistry the Zenn used, and what the extensive battery issues were? And what proper battery management recommendation the battery manufacturer gave you? I think many of us would be very interested to learn more about this.

your manufacturer told you to fully charge your batteries right away because they knew that a vehicle that does not go is owned by a customer that is not happy. on a device that has very little range when fully discharged, the standard advice is to always have a full battery so your range is always maximized. can't do that unless you are constantly charging

I'd be inclined to agree with this assessment if all they said was to top it off right away each time and said nothing else. But they went on to say that "A lithium ion battery left in a discharged condition will deteriorate much faster than a fully charged battery." I don't think that they would go out of their way to make up such a lie just to ensure that people would always top off so they can have "happy" customers.

I've read from other sources as well regarding laptop batteries that a topped off Lithium Ion battery is better than one left in a discharged state for longevity purposes.

I'm sure that Nissan would also have said something if a 50% SOC is truly better than an 80% SOC in the Leaf. After all, they did reveal that 80% is better than 100% and left it up to owners to decide which of the 2 is the optimum SOC for their driving needs.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

My Zenn used lead acid so does not apply to a Leaf. Lead acid was recommended to keep charged as much as possible so it was recommended to plug in Asap.

 

[csriram45]

on Sat and Sun when off peak rates are valid till 5 pm. i charged to 80% using the timer and then plugged the 110 V charger in the morning... Letting it charge for some time until I can check from my app the SOC meter... When I see 11/12, I just go and stop the L1 charging. I see 2 benefits.

I get 90% charge on weekends when I might run more errands. I do slow charge above 80% causing the batteries to heat up less...

 

[garygid]

Both L1 (0.05C = 20 hour) and L2 (0.12C = 8 hour) charging rates are so SLOW that battery pack heating should not normally be a significant issue ...
except perhaps on those 140º F days in Death Valley.

 

[Herm]

I'd be inclined to agree with this assessment if all they said was to top it off right away each time and said nothing else. But they went on to say that "A lithium ion battery left in a discharged condition will deteriorate much faster than a fully charged battery." I don't think that they would go out of their way to make up such a lie just to ensure that people would always top off so they can have "happy" customers.

They stated the truth.. a lithium ion battery discharged to 100% (or within a few % points) will die a quick death, in a few hours or quicker if some of the cells get reverse charged by the others. This cant happen in a Leaf because Nissan wont let it get that low. I dont know the actual limits (because no one has instrumented a battery pack yet), perhaps its set at 15% from zero.

You cant tell customers to keep the battery at 50% because that would be useless.. the moment you drove a couple of blocks it would go below 50% and that is as damaging as if it was above 50%.

This is what I suspect is happening when you charge to 80%.. Nissan automatically takes care of the low end, always setting the cuttoff at 15%, then you limit it to 80% on the upper side by choice.. that gives you an SOC range of only 65% .. and that happens to be what GM is doing with the Volt at all times (they dont give you any choice) to get a 15 year life on their battery. Both the Leaf and Volt use similar chemistries.

So if you can live within that 80% upper limit charge then you will enjoy a long battery life, based on the EPA rating of 73 miles for a fully charged battery that works out to a daily commute of 58 miles so its not too bad. You could do a lot better than that if you hypermile.