A craptastic NPR story on electric cars

[ENIAC]

Every country has a different definition of Liberal, look it up in wikipedia.

Um, no they don't. Liberal is derived from the Latin word liber which means free. It kinda means that all over the world. Look it up in any dictionary. If you believe in freedom, you're a liberal. If you're an American you believe in freedom.

 

[klapauzius]

Funny that someone brought up "progressive".. was reading a book about WWII era Molotov and Stalin, they sprinkle that word around a lot when talking about their political system (meanwhile having people "liquidated" left and right, or exiled to a work camp in Siberia).. and lately the liberals in the US have switched to calling themselves progressives in an attempt at public relations. Liberalism has bad connotations in the US psyche.

So you think because Stalin called himself a "progressive", it is a bad word?
Why should we derive definitions from the mouths of mass murderers?
I am sure that at the same time Hitler and like minded fellows like Franco and Mussolini called
themselves conservatives at some point.

I guess most people actually like "progressive" when they understand what it really means.
I can hardly imagine people would want to schlepp around a clunky 5 pound 80s cell phone
instead of their iPhone...Likewise I am certain, that 10 years from now, no on would like a "conservative" 2011 iPhone

 

[Herm]

I am sure that at the same time Hitler and like minded fellows like Franco and Mussolini called
themselves conservatives at some point.

Well the Nazis (Nationalsozialismus) were National Socialists... recently the old style communists were called conservative and Gorbachev was called a liberal communist, at least in the American media of the 90s, not sure what they called themselves... many conservatives believe it was an insult by the media to associate American conservatives with Soviet "conservatives".

 

[klapauzius]

Well the Nazis (Nationalsozialismus) were National Socialists... recently the old style communists were called conservative and Gorbachev was called a liberal communist, at least in the American media of the 90s, not sure what they called themselves... many conservatives believe it was an insult by the media to associate American conservatives with Soviet "conservatives".

Do you mean to imply that conservatives are really socialists??? :lol:

Of course the Soviet conservatives and the American conservatives have the same goals, they want to turn the clock back to
some perceived "good old times"

As for the Nazis, they called themselves National socialists, but they cruelly persecuted the "real" socialists, which in turn
had lost the state to the Nazis over ideological and political issues with the communists (which hated the socialists also for not being communists). Kind of confusing....

Throughout history it seems that "conservatives" consistently managed to be on the wrong side, so what would be the argument of the conservatives in the US, that they are actually the good guys (while historically, conservatives have always been the bad guys)?

 

[lpickup]

Anyway, how about that LEAF!

 

[lpickup]

The ones who really should be trying to conserve by hypermiling, getting low rolling resistance tires, being diligent about proper tire inflation, cutting out all useless idling, etc. should be the ones who drive monstrosity class (full-sized and beyond) SUVs and pickups and other grossly inefficient vehicles. Unfortunately, due to their choice of vehicle, it's not likely they bother, assuming they even calculate or track their mileage at all.

I especially liked the comment a few posts later in that thread you referred to where owners were going out of their way (literally, adding more miles and thus using more fuel) to increase their MPG. That's just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Thanks for the pointer!

 

[edatoakrun]

Back OT, NPR has posted an interesting map of hybrid/EV market share here:

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/22/142476940/map-hybrid-and-electric-sales-across-the-country" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[hill]

I had a feeling the NPR read would get better each episode. Could'a been worse. Heck, GM got THEIR turn in the barrel not too long ago - when they wrecked The GM/Toyota joint venture NUMMI. NPR's magazine on how that went down was spot on:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I gotta give 'em a bit of slack. Sometimes NPR nails it on the head, and sometime they miss.
.

 

[sproqitman]

I gave up on NPR years ago. I think it's fine to get entertainment (Prairie Home Companion, Car Talk) from a centralized source, but I find local news organizations can often do a better job of actually reporting. Here's a story on EV charging infrastructure from the local NPR station:

Electric Car Drivers Eschew Public Charging Stations So Far

 

[thankyouOB]

there are reporters who consistently do a good job and ones that work the inconsistent side of the aisle.
editors and news orgs fall in the same categories, and some news orgs have no or low standards.

This was just a bad story. How can you do a story about the Leaf as a workable vehicle without talking to at least one owner?
Not really possible, nor should it have gotten by an editor.
Perhaps, National Petroleum Radio will fix it, or maybe that tag says all you need to know.

As to Herm, think of viewing his comments as if you were going to a zoo to see some odd animal that you don't see that often, unless you have one as a relative and he or she comes to your house for Thanksgiving.

 

[edatoakrun]

References to the NPR story in the blog below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/whats-wrong-with-the-electric-car-psychology-perhaps/2011/11/22/gIQAzYNHoN_blog.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Electric-car advocates have occasionally dismissed range anxiety as irrational. After all, the vast majority of Americans commute less than 40 miles a day. So even a Nissan Leaf, which, realistically, gets about 65 miles on a single charge, should satisfy most of our daily needs. But what about slightly longer trips? Consumers really do worry about getting stranded on the road with a dead battery. Plus, as an executive at Better Place once told me, drivers don’t like feeling hemmed in. “Our research shows that people want to feel like they can get into their car and drive across the country at if they have to,” he said. “It might sound silly, but it’s real.”

At the moment, car companies are racking their brains for ways to allay these fears...

Or maybe, working to instill them?

 

[klapauzius]

References to the NPR story in the blog below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/whats-wrong-with-the-electric-car-psychology-perhaps/2011/11/22/gIQAzYNHoN_blog.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Electric-car advocates have occasionally dismissed range anxiety as irrational. After all, the vast majority of Americans commute less than 40 miles a day. So even a Nissan Leaf, which, realistically, gets about 65 miles on a single charge, should satisfy most of our daily needs. But what about slightly longer trips? Consumers really do worry about getting stranded on the road with a dead battery. Plus, as an executive at Better Place once told me, drivers don’t like feeling hemmed in. “Our research shows that people want to feel like they can get into their car and drive across the country at if they have to,” he said. “It might sound silly, but it’s real.”

At the moment, car companies are racking their brains for ways to allay these fears...

Or maybe, working to instill them?

I think they dont have to.... People ARE irrational. I have talked to friends, who havent taken a longer road trip for years, and they tell me they need a car in which they can go traveling a 1000 miles the next day...
Mentioning that you could rent a car for such purpose just drew blank stares.
Ultimately I think people will come around because of the money, more expensive gas and cheaper EVs will do the trick.

 

[KJD]

Ultimately I think people will come around because of the money, more expensive gas and cheaper EVs will do the trick.

All it would take is 5 dollar gas in USA and Nissan will sell every EV they can build.

If the Arab spring starts hitting KSA oil prices will go through the roof.

KJD
http://www.evalbum.com/3175" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[dgpcolorado]

Ultimately I think people will come around because of the money, more expensive gas and cheaper EVs will do the trick.

All it would take is 5 dollar gas in USA and Nissan will sell every EV they can build.

If the Arab spring starts hitting KSA oil prices will go through the roof.

KJD

Really? If that happens the economy will stall and return to recession. And new car purchases will drop sharply as people conserve cash to ride out the storm. Be careful of what you wish for...

While I'd like to see higher gas prices, I'd prefer that the increases be gradual and orderly to reduce economic disruption. Not that any of us have control of international events, as the European debt crisis shows us daily.

 

[hill]

References to the NPR story in the blog below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/whats-wrong-with-the-electric-car-psychology-perhaps/2011/11/22/gIQAzYNHoN_blog.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Electric-car advocates have occasionally dismissed range anxiety as irrational. After all, the vast majority of Americans commute less than 40 miles a day. So even a Nissan Leaf, which, realistically, gets about 65 miles on a single charge, should satisfy most of our daily needs. But what about slightly longer trips? Consumers really do worry about getting stranded on the road with a dead battery. Plus, as an executive at Better Place once told me, drivers don’t like feeling hemmed in. “Our research shows that people want to feel like they can get into their car and drive across the country at if they have to,” he said. “It might sound silly, but it’s real.”

At the moment, car companies are racking their brains for ways to allay these fears...

Or maybe, working to instill them?

If the industry spent 50 cents for every dollar they smear EV's they could take that money and build out the charging infrastructure so there would be no irrational fear . . . just like they did gas pumps and refineries and storage tanks and super tankers. See? I just hit the 'Easy' button. Not a single calorie wasted, wringing my hands.

 

[ENIAC]

Ultimately I think people will come around because of the money, more expensive gas and cheaper EVs will do the trick.

All it would take is 5 dollar gas in USA and Nissan will sell every EV they can build.

Nissan are already selling every EV they can build.

 

[PaulScott]

Ultimately I think people will come around because of the money, more expensive gas and cheaper EVs will do the trick.

All it would take is 5 dollar gas in USA and Nissan will sell every EV they can build.

Nissan are already selling every EV they can build.

Actually, I have several orphans I could sell. MSRP at Downtown LA Nissan. I'm sure they'll go eventually, but I'd sure like to move them sooner than later.

 

[tps]

I think they dont have to.... People ARE irrational. I have talked to friends, who havent taken a longer road trip for years, and they tell me they need a car in which they can go traveling a 1000 miles the next day...
Mentioning that you could rent a car for such purpose just drew blank stares.
Ultimately I think people will come around because of the money, more expensive gas and cheaper EVs will do the trick.

IMHO you were right to say that many people have irrational reasons for not wanting an EV. If they do come around, it may not be for rational reasons. It will be because they see their friends and neighbors driving EVs. It will be because thry made an impiuse buy of an EV they saw at a local car dealer. Personally, I don't really have a rational reason to want an EV, but I want a LEAF, anyway. I had so much fun when I rented the Hertz LEAF back in July; I hope Nissan opens ordering in Tier 4 sooner rather than later...

 

[Electric4Me]

I had so much fun when I rented the Hertz LEAF back in July; I hope Nissan opens ordering in Tier 4 sooner rather than later...

$1500 for shipping plus this:

Actually, I have several orphans I could sell. MSRP at Downtown LA Nissan. I'm sure they'll go eventually, but I'd sure like to move them sooner than later.

Problem solved! :lol: