A short Public Charging rant

[br14n22]

I am in love with my Leaf. I've had it since November 2011 and despite a few challenges, it's definitely the most fun I've had in a car in a long, long time.

That being said, with the popularity growing, especially with the PHV scene, I find it harder and harder to find public charging. More times than not, public stations are completely occupied by Volts or Prius PHV. It's frustrating for reasons that I don't need to explain, but it's also making me doubt the purchase of my next EV.

Part of my love of the Leaf and the EV scene is the planning an intelligent route and finding charging stations at what seems the most perfect time and distance. I want more than anything for my next vehicle to be an EV. but with affordable extended range vehicles still a bit of a pipe dream, I find myself leaning towards the PHV scene.

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[adric22]

Anyone else feel this way?

I'm the opposite! I would LOVE to see all of our stations in DF/W in use when I drive up. As it is I'm either the only one there or there is an ICE car blocking the spot. Which makes me feel like nothing is happening in the EV space. But obviously it is, just not around here.

 

[TomT]

I can't argue against your point... For example, here at work, the six 120 outlets are always full of PHEVs and they stay the entire day, even though there are also a number of Leafs that could make much better use of the charge...

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Volusiano]

I used to own a LEAF but now I own a Volt. I'm guessing that the reason you see a lot of Volt (can't speak for the Prius) charging is probably because those charging stations are free. Once they all switch to a charge fee model, it's not economical for Volts to use them anymore. Even if you have a Blink membership and enjoy the $1/hr rate at an L2 Blink station, it'll take 4 hours -> $4 to fill up the Volt battery to go 40 miles. Meanwhile, it costs 1 gallon of gas (between $3.50-$4) to go 40 miles on the Volt, too. So the math no longer favors charging the Volt at a public L2 charging station anymore.

 

[JimSouCal]

I used to own a LEAF but now I own a Volt. I'm guessing that the reason you see a lot of Volt (can't speak for the Prius) charging is probably because those charging stations are free. Once they all switch to a charge fee model, it's not economical for Volts to use them anymore. Even if you have a Blink membership and enjoy the $1/hr rate at an L2 Blink station, it'll take 4 hours -> $4 to fill up the Volt battery to go 40 miles. Meanwhile, it costs 1 gallon of gas (between $3.50-$4) to go 40 miles on the Volt, too. So the math no longer favors charging the Volt at a public L2 charging station anymore.

Your point has some merit. I was at South Coast Plaza and two spots had a Volt and a Prius charging at lunchtime.

My dilemma: I was on two bars and needed a boost to get back to Santa Monica. Starting charging level 1 on the chargepoint and the groundfaulted while I was eating, fortunately the Volt had left. In Malibu, same deal, 2 + 1 chargers, often occupied by Volts.

Seems to be a conflict of entitlement (which is equal) and need (which can vary).

 

[cgaydos]

This is a real problem. Solution: more charging slots at each station.

Last week I had to make a trip to Denver, outside the normal round-trip range of my LEAF. But, I am also a trail runner who loves to run on new trails. So I plotted a course that had 3 different charging stations on the return, each of which offered interesting trail running options while it charged.

As it turned out the Foxfield Walgreens station was open (ALL HAIL WALGREENS!!!! - seriously, this kind of EV support MUST be encouraged!!!). So I charged, had a great run at Cherry Creek state park, and all was good. But if their EV slot were blocked I had a backup plan at GO NIssan and Castle Rock Walgreens that I would have tried. The chance that any single EV charge will be blocked is far too great to rely on that charger - you need backup plans.

More charging slots = more EV drivers.

 

[apvbguy]

it appears to me that the issue is cars occupying spaces meant for charging while not being charged.
for example an EV driver arrives at 8am parks his car and plugs in, charges for 2 hours and upon completion of his charge he remains in the spot until 6pm, effectively shutting all others for the day. or even worse an EV driver parks in the EV charging spot without even plugging in, he likes the spot because it is close to the entrance he uses and the parking spot is signed EVs only, and he does have an EV.

until the issue of space hogging can be addressed these issues will not go away.

 

[lion]

I used to own a Prius Plug-in, and now own a LEAF, so I have seen both sides. When I had my Prius, I never used a public station, because I never wanted to strand folks driving a BEV such as the LEAF, Focus Electric, etc. The Volt and Prius Plug-in are designed to charge overnight at home, and once that charge has been used up, rely on gas engine to complete the trip/commute.

I get it, and I totally agree with you. But I'm guessing most PHEV drivers won't get it. They want their free charge (although, the Volt is usable as a pure electric vehicle, I would leave that one alone), and I truly hope it's not a sign of bad things to come.

Personally, IF I couldn't make it back home without unplugging that PHEV, I would have no trouble unplugging it for an hour or so (with a note, contact info etc). If he's out of gas, I'll offer to go get a gallon to the PHEV driver (if that really is the excuse) once I have my 20 miles. I'm thankful Nissan added the feature to lock the J1772 handle, but I sure hope PHEV manufacturers won't add this feature.

 

[cwerdna]

I used to own a Prius Plug-in, and now own a LEAF, so I have seen both sides. When I had my Prius, I never used a public station, because I never wanted to strand folks driving a BEV such as the LEAF, Focus Electric, etc. The Volt and Prius Plug-in are designed to charge overnight at home, and once that charge has been used up, rely on gas engine to complete the trip/commute.

I get it, and I totally agree with you. But I'm guessing most PHEV drivers won't get it. They want their free charge (although, the Volt is usable as a pure electric vehicle, I would leave that one alone), and I truly hope it's not a sign of bad things to come.

Yeah, what's worse is that some of them have attitudes like the guy at http://priuschat.com/threads/disgruntled-real-electric-car-owner.124203/page-3#post-1775359" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. :roll:

 

[adric22]

I'm often driving a Volt and I want to plug in just like everyone else. And yes, I am happy to pay for the cost whether it is $1.00 per hour or $2.00 per hour. It isn't about which fuel source is cost effective. For me it is about the experience of driving electric. I paid a premium for the car in order to have this experience and I'll pay a premium for the fuel from time to time if it means I get to stay in all electric mode.

If I had a Ford C-Max Energi or Fusion Energi, I'd still feel the same way. The only PHEV I can say would be different would be the Prius Plug-in. I say that mainly because the Prius lacks the ability to totally lock out the I.C.E. It makes you work very hard to have an EV experience and it is not a very good one at that. So with the Prius for most folks it probably boils down to economics. But for me it would be about experience.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
FWIW, the PiP lets you accelerate MUCH harder in EV only than the non-plugin Prius, at least while you have sufficient SoC so that you're in EV mode.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm totally fine with PHEVs using the plugs as long as they are actively charging.

 

[Deleted member 8423]

I don't know where this BS feeling of "I can't BELIEVE PIP & Volt owners are using the chargers!!" comes from. Your precious Leaf does not grant you membership in some exclusive club. The infrastructure is for ALL *EV's.

On the plus side, you currently have the DCFC's pretty much all to yourself.

Charge on!

 

[lion]

The Prius Plug-in stays in EV mode as long as you don't floor it, as long as temps are above 40F or so, so it falls in the same category as the Ford * Energi vehicles and the Honda Accord Plug-in IMHO. Cold weather can definitely make EV more of a hybrid experience, but it is a pHev after all.

The Volt/ELR are in their own category thanks to the great range the battery offers.

 

[adric22]

The Prius Plug-in stays in EV mode as long as you don't floor it, as long as temps are above 40F or so, so it falls in the same category as the Ford * Energi vehicles and the Honda Accord Plug-in IMHO. Cold weather can definitely make EV more of a hybrid experience, but it is a pHev after all.

Actually, the Energi vehicles do have a mode called "EV Now" which locks out the I.C.E. no matter how hard you press the accelerator pedal. While granted, they have much less power in EV mode and they have half the EV range of a Volt, they are still far ahead of the PiP. Not only because of the EV-Now mode, but twice the range and also you can pretty much drive 70 mph down the highway in EV mode if you want. This makes for a much better "EV experience" than a PiP, while still lacking behind the Volt obviously.

 

[br14n22]

I don't know where this BS feeling of "I can't BELIEVE PIP & Volt owners are using the chargers!!" comes from. Your precious Leaf does not grant you membership in some exclusive club. The infrastructure is for ALL *EV's.

On the plus side, you currently have the DCFC's pretty much all to yourself.

Charge on!

No attitude required, thanks. Don't be that asshole in a thread that's been civil up until your post. I'm not blaming owners, infrastructure, or anything else. I'm pointing out my observations, frustrations, and using this forum to see if anyone feels the same. No need to get nasty.

The point was brought up earlier in this thread, which pretty much sums up all the opinions stated:

Seems to be a conflict of entitlement (which is equal) and need (which can vary).

The difference between a PHV and EV is a matter of need. The cold, hard truth is that for every EV (or PHV owner for that matter) that is going to be conscientious of the community around public charging, there's at least 10 who don't care and will plug in no matter what their SOC. This in most cases will affect the EV driver more than it will affect the PHV driver, unless you care to dispute that.

I glad this stimulated discussion from both sides of the table.

 

[cwerdna]

Actually, the Energi vehicles do have a mode called "EV Now" which locks out the I.C.E. no matter how hard you press the accelerator pedal.

LOL! Ahh... now I think I know why evnow picked his handle! He was into the C-Max (Energi?) prior to the Leaf become readily available. I met him briefly in WA state at a Prius v wagon Toyota event up there... He had paid the deposit on a Leaf at the time but didn't have the car yet.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Maybe at some point EV parking spots will have 4 hour time limits for L2 charging when all chargers are in use. That lets the PiP charge completely with time to spare, and gives other EV owners enough time to get at least enough range to get home without anxiety. It could be done with smart parking meters. Chargepoint and similar users could receive a robocall telling them their reservation is up.


Of course, at that point everyone will have a backup personal jetpack to get home anyway.

 

[RonDawg]

Maybe at some point EV parking spots will have 4 hour time limits for L2 charging when all chargers are in use. That lets the PiP charge completely with time to spare, and gives other EV owners enough time to get at least enough range to get home without anxiety. It could be done with smart parking meters. Chargepoint and similar users could receive a robocall telling them their reservation is up.

That's what I think should happen as EVs become more prevalent. Offer discounted or even free charging up to a certain point, then the fees ramp up significantly afterward.

Blink stations will send you an email or text (you specify) when you car is "full" or charging is otherwise stopped, so I'm sure it's not hard for the others to do something like this if they aren't already.

 

[lion]

The Prius Plug-in stays in EV mode as long as you don't floor it, as long as temps are above 40F or so, so it falls in the same category as the Ford * Energi vehicles and the Honda Accord Plug-in IMHO. Cold weather can definitely make EV more of a hybrid experience, but it is a pHev after all.

Actually, the Energi vehicles do have a mode called "EV Now" which locks out the I.C.E. no matter how hard you press the accelerator pedal. While granted, they have much less power in EV mode and they have half the EV range of a Volt, they are still far ahead of the PiP. Not only because of the EV-Now mode, but twice the range and also you can pretty much drive 70 mph down the highway in EV mode if you want. This makes for a much better "EV experience" than a PiP, while still lacking behind the Volt obviously.

I did not know about that button, and will readily admit when I'm wrong. Very interesting! That said, Ford has been very wrong about their EPA ratings etc, so I'm not sure how much I would trust their EV range guesses.

Do you know if the engine will kick in when requesting heat?

I don't know where this BS feeling of "I can't BELIEVE PIP & Volt owners are using the chargers!!" comes from. Your precious Leaf does not grant you membership in some exclusive club. The infrastructure is for ALL *EV's.

On the plus side, you currently have the DCFC's pretty much all to yourself.

Charge on!

That's fine, the problem is, the PIP is completely charged in 1 hour, so it tends to sit there for many hours, doing nothing but preventing someone else from charging. The PIP doesn't NEED the charge to get home, vehicles such as the Focus Electric, Fiat 500e, Chevy Spark EV, Smart ED, Nissan LEAF, they all NEED that charger JUST to get around. As for DCFC, that's a pipe dream for most drivers in this country, so not sure why you even mentioned it. As an ex PIP owner, I understood this, many PIP owners on the PriusChat owners understand this as well, and are just as courteous, so I don't see why you have to make a big deal about this.

If there are plenty of charging stations in the area, fine, but if there are only 1 or 2, and you know there are other cars which truly need it, why would you plug your PIP in?