Am I a candidate for a Nissan Leaf?

[wizeguy]

One thing to consider, being from Seattle and having a 52-mile commute, is topography. To/from where are you commuting? I come from East Everett, and maybe have a net elevation gain of 600' over the course of my commute. This poses no problem to my range. However, if you are coming from a higher-elevation locale, like Snoqualmie or North Bend, a similar-length commute may eat up more juice. Just a thought. If you can charge at work, even at 110V, that can help to overcome such issues.

Olympia to Tacoma so pretty similar to your commute.

 

[uwskier20]

Olympia to Tacoma so pretty similar to your commute.

No sweat! A commute of roughly 50 miles is more or less ideal for the LEAF, as you are really saving a lot on gas money (e.g., better ROI), while not pushing the limits of the LEAF's range (less antacid in your diet). I say go for it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The DC "Quick Charge" CHAdeMO port is on the left and the 3.3kW or 6.0/6.6kW port (J1772 standard AC power) is on the right:

Typical CHAdeMO charger that is all over western Washington. The smaller plug on the left is the J1772:

 

[uwskier20]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Hopefully this illustrates the difference between L1/L2 ("small" plug) and DCQC ("big" plug).

Thanks, Tony!

As an aside, National Plug In Day is coming up, next weekend (28-29). There will be an event in the Seattle area, where many Seattle-area EV owners will be attending. Would be a great opportunity to see LEAFs and other EVs up close, discuss experiences, and get a feel for the ownership experience.

Details here: http://www.pluginday.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ERG4ALL]

Heck if I'm leasing why not just charge to 100% everyday?

When we charge to 100% we time it so we immediately get in and drive it. Nissan advises that the car not sit for extended periods of time at 100%, it's hard on the battery. When we first got our LEAF in 2011 when we needed 100% we would just make that a part of our normal overnight charging. When we had our first battery check we got 5 stars on everything but "Charging to 100%. After that we made sure it never sat at 100% for more than a few minutes and on our second battery check we got 5 stars on everything.

 

[SierraQ]

One way into work.
==================
5 miles at 40 mph, 5.9 miles/kilowatt = .84 used
5 miles at 50 mph, 4.6 miles/kilowatt = 1.08 used
16 miles at 65 mph, 3.6 miles/kilowatt = 4.44 used

...

Occasionally I come home like this.
=====================================
24 miles at 70 mph, 3.3 miles/kilowatt = 7.27 used (I could go slower here to save a few watts)
6 miles at 40 mph, 5.9 miles/kilowatt = 1.01 used

We have a nearly identical commute! What you can expect is that (assuming a new Leaf/pack) the first 2 years you will easily make this distance with 15-20 miles to spare. (You can even run off 80% charges initially.) Starting around year 3 or 4 (perhaps year 5 for you because you are in a better climate) you will still make the commute but your cushion will decrease to about 5-10 miles as the pack naturally degrades.

That 24 miles @70mph is a serious battery drain and will determine your cushion. Going 65 will save you some amount of energy and going 60 will save you a lot. So you can adjust on your way home if you are running low, have to do errands, etc.

As far as climate control your main concern will be winter. First the battery has 10-20% less capacity in 30-40 degree cold. Add to that the heater will sap another 10-20% of your range on the 2011-2012 Leaf. Personally I would go for a 2013 Leaf which has a much better heater and thus heating will have a negligible effect on your range.

All things considered and based on my experience I think the Leaf will be very suitable to make the trip without the charger at work for most days of the year. You will learn how to best drive the Leaf to get the most out of it and techniques like pre-heating the vehicle in the winter will also help.

 

[wizeguy]

Heck if I'm leasing why not just charge to 100% everyday?

When we had our first battery check we got 5 stars on everything but "Charging to 100%. After that we made sure it never sat at 100% for more than a few minutes and on our second battery check we got 5 stars on everything.

Where are you seeing the stars?

 

[wizeguy]

One way into work.
==================
5 miles at 40 mph, 5.9 miles/kilowatt = .84 used
5 miles at 50 mph, 4.6 miles/kilowatt = 1.08 used
16 miles at 65 mph, 3.6 miles/kilowatt = 4.44 used

...

Occasionally I come home like this.
=====================================
24 miles at 70 mph, 3.3 miles/kilowatt = 7.27 used (I could go slower here to save a few watts)
6 miles at 40 mph, 5.9 miles/kilowatt = 1.01 used

We have a nearly identical commute! What you can expect is that (assuming a new Leaf/pack) the first 2 years you will easily make this distance with 15-20 miles to spare. (You can even run off 80% charges initially.) Starting around year 3 or 4 (perhaps year 5 for you because you are in a better climate) you will still make the commute but your cushion will decrease to about 5-10 miles as the pack naturally degrades.

That 24 miles @70mph is a serious battery drain and will determine your cushion. Going 65 will save you some amount of energy and going 60 will save you a lot. So you can adjust on your way home if you are running low, have to do errands, etc.

As far as climate control your main concern will be winter. First the battery has 10-20% less capacity in 30-40 degree cold. Add to that the heater will sap another 10-20% of your range on the 2011-2012 Leaf. Personally I would go for a 2013 Leaf which has a much better heater and thus heating will have a negligible effect on your range.

All things considered and based on my experience I think the Leaf will be very suitable to make the trip without the charger at work for most days of the year. You will learn how to best drive the Leaf to get the most out of it and techniques like pre-heating the vehicle in the winter will also help.

Thanks for the feedback. Its comforting for sure. Its a rare day that I can come home at 70mph, generally I end up doing that section around 30-40mph because of freeway is backed up. On occasion (holiday) I can 'jam' home (aka 70mph). Those numbers above are my worst case sort of scenario. From what I gather 30-40mph in gridlock is ideal for the Leaf.

Same with the heater. I figure I'd end up with a jacket and towel to wipe off the front windshield.

 

[wizeguy]

So just for kicks I looked on ebay at what Leafs are selling for. Quite a few sold for $17,000-$15,000 with 15,000 miles on them. What I assume you guys are mostly driving. Pretty loaded up too. Too bad no quick charger and a hungry heater. I'll have to take a look at the math to see how bad of an idea that would be. I really like the idea of owning my car vs leasing. That dang battery. Ugh!

Is there any way to tell how a battery has been treated? Say on a lot with 15k on the odometer?

 

[TomT]

They are on the required annual battery check and report. The report - at least the part we see - is largely meaningless though...

Where are you seeing the stars?

 

[wizeguy]

They are on the required annual battery check and report. The report - at least the part we see - is largely meaningless though...

Where are you seeing the stars?

That's a requirement of the lease? You take it in and get it tested?

If I were buying a used Leaf its something I could probably pay nissan to do the test for me? Shoot though. I suspect a 3 year old 15,000 leaf charged to 100% everyday would probably still test ok. Of course not as good as a battery that has been taken care of properly but with such little useage probably wouldn't show up yet. Man how do you weed out the ones taken care of properly. I guess ask the owner.

 

[uwskier20]

I suspect a 3 year old 15,000 leaf charged to 100% everyday would probably still test ok. Of course not as good as a battery that has been taken care of properly but with such little useage probably wouldn't show up yet. Man how do you weed out the ones taken care of properly. I guess ask the owner.

It depends on the climate. Around here, a battery with 15,000 miles should be fine, on account of the maritime climate. We don't have a lot of data yet on battery degradation based on time, though; at least not out to three years, since the first LEAFs were delivered in December 2010, and our ability to collect data happened some time after that.

I guess one other thing is that you should not put a lot of stock in Nissan's battery test. Maybe for a used or pre-owned car, they do more extensive testing, but routine battery testing the results can be misleading. As an example, I've experienced [somewhat] rapid battery degradation in the past few months. However, the Nissan battery report gave me perfect scores.

The best way to assess battery health is to get an Amp-hour (Ahr) reading from the car, which can probably be done by the dealer (many of us have our own equipment, which can be had very cheaply, thanks to other members of this community). A reading greater than 66 Ahr is generally considered very good.

With a lease, you generally shouldn't need to worry about capacity loss (around here, anyhow), since you will eventually be turning the car back in.

 

[RonDawg]

They are on the required annual battery check and report.

That's a requirement of the lease? You take it in and get it tested?

Yes, it is a requirement of the battery warranties, regardless of whether you purchase or lease.

 

[Berlino]

That's a requirement of the lease? You take it [the battery] in and get it tested?

In my case (purchase, Canada) the required annual test if free for two years, then I imagine it will get expensive.

What are people being charged for this test?

 

[planet4ever]

That's a requirement of the lease? You take it [the battery] in and get it tested?

In my case (purchase, Canada) the required annual test if free for two years, then I imagine it will get expensive. What are people being charged for this test?

You mean the people who got their LEAF before October 2010? :lol:

Gudy was the first paying customer to get a LEAF, and his was delivered on December 11, 2010. No, I didn't remember that date; I looked it up on the old Nissan Leaf VIN and Delivery spreadsheet.

The 12 month and 24 month reports are free for everyone if performed by a LEAF certified dealer. That is stated right in the Warranty Information Booklet. The customer report is not terribly meaningful, but Nissan gets a full battery usage dump.

Ray

 

[Berlino]

The 12 month and 24 month reports are free for everyone if performed by a LEAF certified dealer. That is stated right in the Warranty Information Booklet.

Warranties and other such policies change over time and often differ from country to country, so I wouldn't have been at all surprised if someone had already paid for this "work."

Besides, even when you have free work done under warranty, you sometimes see an invoice showing what you would have paid under other circumstances.

 

[wizeguy]

So can that test be used against you or do you think Nissan is just seeing how their batteries are holding up? I'll need to look up the warranty details.