Any reason NOT to charge to 100% on a leased LEAF?

[Nubo]

Even though I'm on a lease I try to be kind to the battery. I'd rather have maximum capacity available when I need it rather than pushing power into the pack for days when I don't really need the miles. On my daily commute 80% is far more than enough and I typically get home with 4 bars remaining.

That being said, I don't hesitate to go to 100% when I do need it, which is usually a few weekend days a month. Often this means letting it end charging in close proximity to the departure time, but once a month or so I make a point of giving it a good 4 hours plugged in past the 100% termination, so that any necessary cell balancing can take place. I was reminded of that need a few weeks ago when taking a drive that pushed the range, and the last 10% went by much faster than I was accustomed. Periodic balancing keeps things predictable at the bottom.

 

[GregH]

FWIW I don't know that sitting all day at 80% (4.05V/cell) is all that much better than sitting all day at "full" (95% or 4.1V/cell)... By only charging every 2 or 3 days MrIanB's vehicle probably averages a lower SOC. Without regard for the occasional need for cell balancing, I'd think having the car at 20-60% most of the time (ideally 40%) would be best. If you only drive 20 miles a day maybe setting up the timer to charge for 90 minutes around 4 or 5am and plugging in at night if you're below 40% or so...

Perhaps I'm obsessing over this a tad, but on my first Leaf (in semi coastal SoCal) I completed charge every morning 6am to 80% and after a year I STILL lost 15% capacity. I'm determined to make my new car last longer if at all possible and that means cool and low SOC.

 

[ERG4ALL]

Our 2011 is leased with going on 22,000 miles with all 12 capacity bars showing. We have the timers set to charge to 80% and use the override a short time before we are going to use the car if we need anything over 80%. Thus, we rarely charge completely to 100%. I too like to have the regen available immediately so the car drives the same most all of the time. My nature is such that I don't like to abuse any machinery. If I borrowed a friends car, I would not abuse it and I don't feel any different with NIssan. The more my car is worth when I turn it in, the better it is in several respects for everybody.

 

[davewill]

... My nature is such that I don't like to abuse any machinery. If I borrowed a friends car, I would not abuse it and I don't feel any different with NIssan. The more my car is worth when I turn it in, the better it is in several respects for everybody.

I quite agree. Also, there's always the chance I'll decide I want to buy the car at the end of the lease.

 

[DesertDenizen]

Our 2011 is leased with going on 22,000 miles with all 12 capacity bars showing.

Wow, for Phoenix that is amazing. I lost a bar at 6,771 miles and did all the 'right' things. (Just in time charging and never over 80%, never QC, etc.)

 

[MrIanB]

I am here in Cedar Park Texas, just outside Austin. My 1 year old Chili charges to 100% every time but, I only charge 2-3 times per week. I still have all my bars, zero issues with the car and average 70-80 miles per charge.

Ian B

Out of curiosity, why do you do that rather than simply charging to 80% every night?

Habit and in case the boss tells me that they need me at the office all of a sudden in the same day. Just like being prepared and no harm to battery so far.

Ian B

 

[surfingslovak]

Our 2011 is leased with going on 22,000 miles with all 12 capacity bars showing.

Wow, for Phoenix that is amazing. I lost a bar at 6,771 miles and did all the 'right' things. (Just in time charging and never over 80%, never QC, etc.)

Indeed. The car apparently spends summers in Show Low. I had a close look, and it's much cooler there than in Phoenix metro during the summer. This has been pointed out to ERG4ALL as well. While charging to 80% is a good defensive practice, there have been numerous examples last year, which were clear indication that ambient temperature and by extension the local climate had an overwhelming impact on battery degradation. When I read the preliminary results from Tom Saxton's battery study last December, I could not quite understand why not all vehicles in hot climates would be affected. I think ERG4ALL's LEAF is a good example why: it spends the hottest part of the year elsewhere.

 

[jimmyz80]

OK I must be doing something wrong.... I have the car set to "long life mode" in the settings, meaning it should charge to 80% instead of 100%. I'm not using any timers since there's no benefit in me charging at night without being on a time-of-use rate table. The car is currently charged to 80%, but if I hit the "immediate charge" button, it charges for a few seconds and then stops. It seems like it's not going to 100% when I hit the button, like everyone else says it should.

Will it only function that way if you have "long life mode" disabled, and then use timers that are set to charge to 80%?

 

[DesertDenizen]

Best to hit the timer overide button before you start charging if you want it to go to 100%. If charging has stopped and it is at 80% go to Carwings and hit the Start Charging button. It will then charge to 100%.

 

[jimmyz80]

Best to hit the timer overide button before you start charging if you want it to go to 100%. If charging has stopped and it is at 80% go to Carwings and hit the Start Charging button. It will then charge to 100%.

No luck. I just hit charge in carwings and it charged for a few seconds then stopped. Still at 80%.

 

[davewill]

OK I must be doing something wrong.... I have the car set to "long life mode" in the settings, meaning it should charge to 80% instead of 100%. I'm not using any timers since there's no benefit in me charging at night without being on a time-of-use rate table. The car is currently charged to 80%, but if I hit the "immediate charge" button, it charges for a few seconds and then stops. It seems like it's not going to 100% when I hit the button, like everyone else says it should.

Will it only function that way if you have "long life mode" disabled, and then use timers that are set to charge to 80%?

Do you have a 2013, by any chance? Apparently there a new 80% setting that's separate from the timers. I have no idea if there's ANY way to override it.

 

[jimmyz80]

OK I must be doing something wrong.... I have the car set to "long life mode" in the settings, meaning it should charge to 80% instead of 100%. I'm not using any timers since there's no benefit in me charging at night without being on a time-of-use rate table. The car is currently charged to 80%, but if I hit the "immediate charge" button, it charges for a few seconds and then stops. It seems like it's not going to 100% when I hit the button, like everyone else says it should.

Will it only function that way if you have "long life mode" disabled, and then use timers that are set to charge to 80%?

Do you have a 2013, by any chance? Apparently there a new 80% setting that's separate from the timers. I have no idea if there's ANY way to override it.

Yep it's a 2013. As I noted in my previous post, I have the car set to "long life mode" which must be this new setting. I'm thinking the ONLY way to get to 100% is to turn this off, which sucks since I don't want to use timers...

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

It's helpful to really study the manuals, cover to cover, a couple of times until you absorb it all. I'm still review them, even though they're pretty boringly written an repetitive in spots. There's just so many things that are new and different than a gas car.

 

[davewill]

Yep it's a 2013. As I noted in my previous post, I have the car set to "long life mode" which must be this new setting. I'm thinking the ONLY way to get to 100% is to turn this off, which sucks since I don't want to use timers...

It's not a real problem, especially if you don't want to use the timers as timers. Just set a timer to run from noon to noon*, 80% and make it active every day. Then it will charge to 80% whenever you plug in, and you will hopefully be able to override just like the older cars.

*You can use any time here. It's best to use some time you aren't normally plugged in, as the car will sometimes try to charge for a bit when the start time hits, even if it's done.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Yep it's a 2013. As I noted in my previous post, I have the car set to "long life mode" which must be this new setting. I'm thinking the ONLY way to get to 100% is to turn this off, which sucks since I don't want to use timers...

It's not a real problem, especially if you don't want to use the timers as timers. Just set a timer to run from noon to noon*, 80% and make it active every day. Then it will charge to 80% whenever you plug in, and you will hopefully be able to override just like the older cars.

*You can use any time here. It's best to use some time you aren't normally plugged in, as the car will sometimes try to charge for a bit when the start time hits, even if it's done.

Seems like Nissan tried to remove the need to use this work-around by including the long-life mode, but then left the timer override button as just that - a TIMER override. If you're not using timers, but set the car to long-life mode, the timer override does what it's supposed to - absolutely nothing.

So close, Nissan, so close.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I am here in Cedar Park Texas, just outside Austin. My 1 year old Chili charges to 100% every time but, I only charge 2-3 times per week. I still have all my bars, zero issues with the car and average 70-80 miles per charge.

Ian B

Out of curiosity, why do you do that rather than simply charging to 80% every night?

Habit and in case the boss tells me that they need me at the office all of a sudden in the same day. Just like being prepared and no harm to battery so far.

Ian B

Actually, I was wondering why you only charge 2-3 times a week, rather than simply charging every day. I know others do so because it leaves the car sitting at a lower state of charge on average - is that your reasoning too? I'm really not convinced about the difference between 80% and 40%. From the information I've seen, the difference is much less significant than from 100% to 80%.

 

[sling]

I charge to 80% about every other day, I dont know about other people's reasons, but the batteries are rated on charge cycles right? Maybe its not a common metric, but i've seen a table or list somewhere comparing charge cycles until battery replacement. Either way, I have a 20 mile round trip commute mostly 55+ and by the end of the 2nd day its low enough that I'm not sure I could make it a 3ed day. I average 4.5-4.6 Mi/kwh, so you would think I could easily get 3 days in on an 80% charge. :/

 

[GregH]

Keeping in mind the Leaf never goes to 100% (4.2V/cell).. more like 95% (4.1V/cell) and we don't really have data for the AESC manganese cells in the Leaf, I still found the following to be an eye-opener..
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Probably for cobalt cells, but still:
1 year storage at 100% SOC (4.2V) and 0 degrees C resulted in 6% capacity loss
1 year storage at 100% SOC (4.2V) and 25 degrees C resulted in 20% capacity loss(!)
1 year storage at 100% SOC (4.2V) and 40 degrees C resulted in 35% capacity loss(!!!!)

1 year storage at 40% SOC (3.75V) and 0 degrees C resulted in 2% capacity loss
1 year storage at 40% SOC (3.75V) and 25 degrees C resulted in 4% capacity loss
1 year storage at 40% SOC (3.75V) and 40 degrees C resulted in 15% capacity loss(!)

Clearly temperature is the bigger factor.. but to what end could SOC management compensate?

I really wish we had data for our manganese cells and that we had more resolution.. 20 degrees? 30 degrees? 60% SOC? 80% SOC?
Somebody somewhere must have done these tests.. I mean besides Nissan/AESC.

 

[MrIanB]

Actually, I was wondering why you only charge 2-3 times a week, rather than simply charging every day. I know others do so because it leaves the car sitting at a lower state of charge on average - is that your reasoning too? I'm really not convinced about the difference between 80% and 40%. From the information I've seen, the difference is much less significant than from 100% to 80%.[/quote]



Not too knowledgeable on the state of charge question but, I typically charge, drive till about 10 miles left on the guessometer and recharge to 100%. That ends up being about 2-3 times per week that I charge back up to 100%. Hope I answered your question.

Ian B

 

[Reddy]

I charge to 80% about every other day, I dont know about other people's reasons, but the batteries are rated on charge cycles right? Maybe its not a common metric, but i've seen a table or list somewhere comparing charge cycles until battery replacement. Either way, I have a 20 mile round trip commute mostly 55+ and by the end of the 2nd day its low enough that I'm not sure I could make it a 3ed day. I average 4.5-4.6 Mi/kwh, so you would think I could easily get 3 days in on an 80% charge. :/

Since you don't really need the full range, I would set you timers to charge for about 2 hrs per night (say 2am-4am) up to 80%. Then charge every night, trying to keep the battery between 4 to 8 bars. This is what I do for my 8 mi RT commute. Then on Fri/Sat, I have it set to charge from 2am to 8 am, again only up to 80%. This keeps the battery in the middle almost all the time, only getting close to 80% on the weekends for potentially more driving. Then, when I know I will go 30+mi, I override and start charging to 100%. Most Li ion battery technologies prefer to be near 50%, with lower/slower charge/discharge cycles and rates. I'm not certain that there is much difference between multiple partial charges vs a single full charge, but it makes sense to me based on my reading. Certainly, as others have said, high temperature is THE major contributor to battery degradation, probably followed by time at high SOC, high charge/discharge rates, total miles driven (or cycles), and then lastly battery age. I plan on driving my Leaf for 20+ yr (like my other "new" car), so I baby the batteries at every chance, including slow, smooth acceleration/deceleration. That said, it's still just a tool, to be used for the job at hand. If you "need" to drive it farther or harder, then do. I've pushed the limits a couple of times just to see where they are, but that is the exception, not the norm. It hasn't let me down yet.

Reddy