Are you sorry you bought a Leaf?

[Anonymous]

Regarding the dissatisfaction of the LEAF (with the emphasis on "diss") because of range, I agree with Dave but not so stridently. When we ordered our LEAF we had to go through a screen that gave many of the typical range estimates, from 138 miles down to 62 miles depending on your driving style. When we took delivery on the LEAF we had to sign that same document at the dealership while we still had time to back out if we desired. Thus, I cannot find fault with the car for its range. I knew going in that it could vary considerably. I would be embarrassed to complain about the range because it would be my own fault for not reading what I was signing.

Agreed. Kind of like buying a Scion xB, then bitterly complaining that it can't do 0-60 in under 5 seconds... :roll:

 

[HIOJim]

Dave, I think you just proved Googler's point. This thread asked a question, he answered it. You don't like his answer so you attack him with way more heat than necessary, IMHO. That is one definition of the syndrome mentioned.

Same thing I thought when I read it....

mods; split the topic. i will run with this.

its an online forum. if you that thin-skinned, go away. he did not have to make a post, but did it anyway because he had something to say.

but that is what this place is for. sure its topical, sure its biased, and that is why we are here. we "should" understand that we want this Leaf thing to work, so we are here to tout it, discuss it, etc.

when someone comes here to diss, we want to know why and let me tell you. most come here to diss but have NO evidence, details or any fricking thing else. they are here to make noise.

lets look at the post in question; he states it does not work for him, period. this implies his driving needs are NEVER below 73 miles? or he will not be caught dead under 80 mph?? or what does it say??

it says nothing. so why bother. this is not disstheLeaf.com is it now?

if you have a complaint, lets here it. but dont come here and say it sucks without a reason. like what are you?? 4? that is how my son talks. u r an adult... act like one

Mods; I'll run with this, too.

Dave, your aggressively rude responses to people who don't measure up to your posting standards make this forum all the more ineffective as a medium for exchanging ideas and opinions. You also come off sounding like a jerk, so you might want to tone it down an notch or two.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Mods; I'll run with this, too.

Dave, your aggressively rude responses to people who don't measure up to your posting standards make this forum all the more ineffective as a medium for exchanging ideas and opinions. You also come off sounding like a jerk, so you might want to tone it down an notch or two.

ok, no problem, i can do that. my response was intentionally over the top for a reason. i have valid points, but we all do. he has a right to voice his opinion about the car, but making blanket statements without any details is inviting disaster.

i see people post stuff all the time who are simply clueless. but that is why we come here, to be educated. relate our experiences with others who may be in the same boat.

i can accept someone asking very simple basic questions. i am ok with that. most are not. RTFM, etc. does not work for a lot of people. read thru the posts, or FAQs does not either. they simply want a quick simple answer to a simple question.

but others come here and say they dont like this or that and have no reasons for their comments.

lets go to the comment that started all this. he has a Leaf and it wont work for him because his commute is too far. now that is really a guess. i dont know what his commute is, where it is or anything else. maybe he has detailed this earlier, so maybe that is a non issue.

but to say that he will definitely sell his Leaf and lose a ton of money on it, i have to question. it would seem to me that if he sold it right away before it got too many miles on it, he might not make out all too badly. we had several people here offering money over MSRP for one.

but that is not the point either. there have been a lot of people here who have put up a negative post. but they received feedback, some very harsh but were able to accept that and many came around. many have been converted. not all accept negative feedback well. that is human nature.

 

[edatoakrun]

As I see it, there are two major, legitimate, complaints, to be made against Nissan Re the LEAF.

1) They have not managed to deliver enough LEAFs, and they have not respected order priority.

Those of you who have cars, obviously have little reason to complain.

2) They overestimated the comprehension of many American LEAF buyers and drivers, who could not understand BEV range limitations before they bought the car, and when they got in to drive, wound up disappointed and/or calling the flatbed.

Nissan can't do much about these LEAF drivers, but could make more efforts to develop the roadside charging infrastructure, to accommodate their "special" needs, as well as benefit the larger EV driving public.

 

[chuck58]

I think every Leaf owner would like to have a Calvin type Piss on OPEC decal on the back window of the car.
The car is a great statement against foreign oil.
Is California ahead of the curve on public charging stations?
I can tell you the east coast is not in the least prepared at this point to handle EVs.
There should be fast charge stations installed at every gas station and along the interstate highways.
To limit the car to a round trip back home to charge really cuts its effective range in half.
Is anybody worried about the absence of a spare tire? Maybe it is trend to save money by the auto companies.

 

[lemketron]

I think every Leaf owner would like to have a Calvin type Piss on OPEC decal on the back window of the car.
The car is a great statement against foreign oil.

Or a license plate like mine (see avatar)?

 

[thankyouOB]

I am down with Dave.
He has a good style and amps up and down his tone for effect.
that be cool with me.

As the man said: everyone has an opinion, but to be useful you need to back it up with a few facts, eh?

 

[HIOJim]

I am down with Dave.

I like Dave, too. I've enjoyed his posts a great deal and hey, he's from the Pacific NW!

I just want this to be a more inclusive forum and more open to contrary (even if poorly written) opinions.

 

[mwalsh]

Or a license plate like mine (see avatar)?

Did they actually let you order that? I would have thought it's too close to mine.

 

[lemketron]

Or a license plate like mine (see avatar)?

Did they actually let you order that? I would have thought it's too close to mine.

(Sorry for going off-topic -- we should probably follow-up to the personalized license plate thread!)
Seriously? Close is perfectly fine. Just can't be the "same".
And actually, there are several other choices that are also "close" (one or two characters diff) for others who like the theme.
I actually thought of mine last fall but didn't want to order it until my car was almost here.

 

[pksd1]

Yes I am sorry I bought a "NISSAN" LEAF. I hated how Nissan handled most of the ordering and delivery process. I wish it was Toyota or Honda that came out with the LEAF.

.....but I could not be happier with our "LEAF". Although I have owned it for only 4-days now, it has far exceeded my expectations.

 

[downeykp]

I am also going to agree with Dave. I have been coming to this site for months now. It has been a real learning experience. Dave, Mike, Gary, Stanley, Boomer et.al. have went out of their way to be very forthcoming with all
kinds of questions that were positive of the Leaf as well as negative. This is a real learning environment.
There is a lot of frustration out there because of the ordering issues and the we want ours now mentality. If I get mine this month or sometime this summer I really do not care. I am an adult and time will pass and eventually my day will come.
But by spending hours reading at this forum I already know what to expect because of the wonderful members of this forum. Please continue to educate me and others with your passions and frustrations. I am an adult I can take it. Mahalo

 

[Googler]

Dave, I think you just proved Googler's point. This thread asked a question, he answered it. You don't like his answer so you attack him with way more heat than necessary, IMHO. That is one definition of the syndrome mentioned.

yep - but it's completely expected at this point since I have observed it repeatedly. Newcomers to the forum may have a hard time recognizing the lack of objectivity among some members.

There was no range estimate given that matched my typical driving habits (65mph, flat, no climate control). I was expecting to get about 85 miles based on extrapolation from the given estimates. In reality it's closer to 70-75 miles in eco mode. I regularly get 50mpg on my commute in my Prius, so my driving habits are pretty moderate. The primary culprit for the range problem is probably poor aerodynamics. Obviously they could have longer range with a bigger battery, but that's an economic decision. There is little excuse for poor aerodynamics these days.

The fit and finish on the Leaf are only average. The charging door fits poorly and the color doesn't match. The dash has already developed a rattle in the plastic. The solar panel is a gimmick. The level 3 charging port was speculative and there are none in the bay area yet. The Level 1 EVSE that is supplied has too short a cord between the heavy box and the plug. The charging timer is poorly designed. The carpets are pathetic. There shouldn't be fabric on the armrests. The navigation is inferior to my six-year old Prius. Buttons (touch regions) on the touch screen UI are too small. The stereo controls on the steering wheel are too easily tripped accidentally while driving in a parking lot. There are no phone controls on the steering wheel, but a useless range button is there. The range indicator is highly unpredictable, and the bar indicator for remaining battery level should have been a numeric digital display instead to make it easier to read. The lever to open the charging port door should have been more conveniently located. You can turn on the climate control from the web, but there is no ability to set the temperature so it defaults to 77 degrees. The side mirrors are small. The front license plate mount was an afterthought. The glovebox is an inconvenient shape. The gearshift is in an inconvenient location and interferes with the design of the center console. The visors are too small. The car is fairly heavy. Given the inefficiency of the heater, it should have been planned from the beginning with heated seats. There seems to be substantial wind noise (probably caused by inefficient aerodynamics). The acceleration in Eco mode is very sluggish compared to my Prius. None of these features are killers, and every car has some minor annoyances. It's the first model of its kind and I expect the second model will improve on some of these things.

I've owned lots of cars (including some very expensive ones), and the one that I am most impressed with is my 2005 Prius. It strikes just the right balance of technical sophistication, practicality, comfort, and economy. At $5/gallon it works out to be about the same operating cost as the $0.30/kwh that I'm paying for electricity. If you live in an area with low electricity costs or you rearrange your house, then the Leaf has low operating costs. On the other hand, after ten years and 125,000 miles the Prius will still be going strong and the Leaf batteries will be ... well nobody knows for sure but the predictions are that the batteries will be severely degraded long before that. The replacement cost for Prius batteries will be minor compared to the Leaf.

Your original question was whether we are sorry that we bought a Leaf. For people who are EV fanboys the answer would obviously be no and that is to be expected. For them the only thing that matters is that it's electric. I'm not really sorry I bought it, but I'm also not overwhelmed by it. The Prius seems like a much better car overall. On the other hand, the Leaf seems better than the Volt or the MiEV.

I had no real complaints about the ordering experience. I ordered very early and got mine six weeks ago.

 

[DaveEV]

There was no range estimate given that matched my typical driving habits (65mph, flat, no climate control). I was expecting to get about 85 miles based on extrapolation from the given estimates. In reality it's closer to 70-75 miles in eco mode.

So - you get turtle mode after 75 miles of 65 mph on the highway on flat land in decent weather? That doesn't match other people's experience which does seem to be about 85 miles from full to empty - perhaps you've got something wrong with your LEAF.

 

[Stoaty]

There was no range estimate given that matched my typical driving habits (65mph, flat, no climate control). I was expecting to get about 85 miles based on extrapolation from the given estimates. In reality it's closer to 70-75 miles in eco mode.

You still haven't specified the length of your commute. How far is it? Have you thought about slowing down a bit to get the required range? Is there any possibility of recharging at work?

 

[Clippy]

Your original question was whether we are sorry that we bought a Leaf. For people who are EV fanboys the answer would obviously be no and that is to be expected. For them the only thing that matters is that it's electric. I'm not really sorry I bought it, but I'm also not overwhelmed by it. The Prius seems like a much better car overall. On the other hand, the Leaf seems better than the Volt or the MiEV.

I had no real complaints about the ordering experience. I ordered very early and got mine six weeks ago.

With apologies to the EV Experts, for the vast majority of American car buyers, the Leaf is a poor choice.

If you don't meet a specific set of criteria, you should steer well clear of this transportation device.

For me, (once I convinced the local city authorities my TOU meter installation was not sufficient justification for condemning my house) the Leaf is an exact fit. It is the perfect replacement for my 2007 Prius, whose ICE was about the only thing I didn't like about the car. The government largess associated with my purchase of the Leaf allows me to overlook its quality shortcomings.

The problem, as I see it, for the EV people is not just to put people into EV's but how to keep some people out of them.

 

[Ready2plugin]

There was no range estimate given that matched my typical driving habits (65mph, flat, no climate control). I was expecting to get about 85 miles based on extrapolation from the given estimates. In reality it's closer to 70-75 miles in eco mode.

You still haven't specified the length of your commute. How far is it? Have you thought about slowing down a bit to get the required range? Is there any possibility of recharging at work?

He can recharge at work....showed pictures of a dozen or so L2's installed at Google. Also, the length of commute I believe is not a factor...he just does not like the range of the car, even though it is not a factor for him. He is not a Fanboy, nor will he ever be.

 

[derkraut]

Dave, I think you just proved Googler's point. This thread asked a question, he answered it. You don't like his answer so you attack him with way more heat than necessary, IMHO. That is one definition of the syndrome mentioned.

yep - but it's completely expected at this point since I have observed it repeatedly. Newcomers to the forum may have a hard time recognizing the lack of objectivity among some members.

There was no range estimate given that matched my typical driving habits (65mph, flat, no climate control). I was expecting to get about 85 miles based on extrapolation from the given estimates. In reality it's closer to 70-75 miles in eco mode. I regularly get 50mpg on my commute in my Prius, so my driving habits are pretty moderate. The primary culprit for the range problem is probably poor aerodynamics. Obviously they could have longer range with a bigger battery, but that's an economic decision. There is little excuse for poor aerodynamics these days.

The fit and finish on the Leaf are only average. The charging door fits poorly and the color doesn't match. The dash has already developed a rattle in the plastic. The solar panel is a gimmick. The level 3 charging port was speculative and there are none in the bay area yet. The Level 1 EVSE that is supplied has too short a cord between the heavy box and the plug. The charging timer is poorly designed. The carpets are pathetic. There shouldn't be fabric on the armrests. The navigation is inferior to my six-year old Prius. Buttons (touch regions) on the touch screen UI are too small. The stereo controls on the steering wheel are too easily tripped accidentally while driving in a parking lot. There are no phone controls on the steering wheel, but a useless range button is there. The range indicator is highly unpredictable, and the bar indicator for remaining battery level should have been a numeric digital display instead to make it easier to read. The lever to open the charging port door should have been more conveniently located. You can turn on the climate control from the web, but there is no ability to set the temperature so it defaults to 77 degrees. The side mirrors are small. The front license plate mount was an afterthought. The glovebox is an inconvenient shape. The gearshift is in an inconvenient location and interferes with the design of the center console. The visors are too small. The car is fairly heavy. Given the inefficiency of the heater, it should have been planned from the beginning with heated seats. There seems to be substantial wind noise (probably caused by inefficient aerodynamics). The acceleration in Eco mode is very sluggish compared to my Prius. None of these features are killers, and every car has some minor annoyances. It's the first model of its kind and I expect the second model will improve on some of these things.

I've owned lots of cars (including some very expensive ones), and the one that I am most impressed with is my 2005 Prius. It strikes just the right balance of technical sophistication, practicality, comfort, and economy. At $5/gallon it works out to be about the same operating cost as the $0.30/kwh that I'm paying for electricity. If you live in an area with low electricity costs or you rearrange your house, then the Leaf has low operating costs. On the other hand, after ten years and 125,000 miles the Prius will still be going strong and the Leaf batteries will be ... well nobody knows for sure but the predictions are that the batteries will be severely degraded long before that. The replacement cost for Prius batteries will be minor compared to the Leaf.

Your original question was whether we are sorry that we bought a Leaf. For people who are EV fanboys the answer would obviously be no and that is to be expected. For them the only thing that matters is that it's electric. I'm not really sorry I bought it, but I'm also not overwhelmed by it. The Prius seems like a much better car overall. On the other hand, the Leaf seems better than the Volt or the MiEV.

I had no real complaints about the ordering experience. I ordered very early and got mine six weeks ago.

An honest assessment, imho. I'm sure many of these issues will be addressed/corrected with later models. So, if the $5K CA rebate is gone by the time my car arrives, I'll almost assuredly cancel my purchase and wait for next year.

 

[ERG4ALL]

Googler, given that 65 mph consumes 17% more energy than 60 mph, it seems that you would come very close to your expectation of 85 miles per charge traveling at 60 mph. In terms of time instead of 78 minutes travel time for the 85 miles it would take you 85 minutes, a difference of 7 minutes. If the speed limit on your run is like 75 mph, then I can see your reluctance to go 60 mph and the LEAF just may have been a bad choice and your needs may be close to what the LEAF can provide but as the saying goes, "Close, but no cigar"

I am puzzled by the comment "There are no phone controls on the steering wheel". I answer and when through hang up calls using the phone icon button on the steering wheel. My phone is bluetooth equipped. Is that the difference, your phone is not bluetooth compatible? :?:

 

[LEAFer]

The problem, as I see it, for the EV people is not just to put people into EV's but how to keep some people out of them.

Make this ... QOTD (Quote of the Day) :!: