Bad news using my retrofitted EVSE with the LEAF :(

[garygid]

Andy,
I agree, the LEAF is OK, and I edited my earlier posts to match.

The PWM should continue, but this particular older EVSE apparently thinks that it is "done" after the single "on" session. This particular older EVSE still works with the LEAF for "immediate-start" charging. It is possible that this EVSE just needs a firmware upgrade that it never got.

Perhaps other "older" EVSEs will behave differently, and will work OK with the LEAF's Timers.

 

[Spies]

Gary wins the prize! Mystery solved! Problem still exists

It turns out that this EVSE, and possibly all the EVI MCS 100-3, was specifically programmed to only allow a single cycle. I learned this by speaking with Matt, Gary and Jason at Clipper Creek. I believe it was Jason who was one of the original engineers on the EVI MCS 100-3 and he remembered that these units were programmed that way to get around a bug that was discovered in the Honda EV Plus. The bug was that one of the computers in the Honda EV Plus would stay on and listening to the pilot after the charge cycle was complete. This listening prevented the computer from going to sleep and it would continue to draw power from the 12 volt system on the car until the pilot was removed or the 12 volt battery was dead. Having to jump start your electric car just because you left it plugged in would not be a happy experience. So the initial solution was to have the pilot shut down in the EVSE after one cycle. I believe Jason did mention he was instrumental in getting the bug fixed in the Honda EV Plus itself but of course this single cycle behavior is still built into my EVSE. I was also told that this EVSE is still fully J1772 compliant even with this single cycle behavior.

It seems that the hardware and software used to program the pilot in these units is long gone so removing the single cycle behavior from the pilot controller does not seem feasible at this time. Jason did suggest one thing to try and that was to momentarily disconnect the pilot line while the LEAF is plugged into the EVSE to try and fake out the pilot into resetting the cycle without the LEAF noticing but the LEAF would just trigger a cycle again no matter how fast I did it.

So at this point I am going to try and see if the LEAF timers at least have a small window after they trigger to get the car in and still have it charge. This way I might be able to get the pool timer synchronized enough that I will be able to join the 80% club.

It still boggles my mind as to why you can't set an 80% charge without a timer.

 

[DarkStar]

It still boggles my mind as to why you can't set an 80% charge without a timer.

You aren't the only one!

 

[EVDRIVER]

Can't you just put in a new pilot signal circuit and bypass what they use. Seems there is a easy work around.

 

[Spies]

Can't you just put in a new pilot signal circuit and bypass what they use. Seems there is a easy work around.

Possibly but that might be beyond my scope right now.

I suppose all I would really need is to have a pilot device that would piggyback onto the one I have. Its not like the relays won't close if they are asked to after the first cycle its just that the pilot is no longer generated after the first cycle.

 

[mitch672]

Have you asked your contacts at Clipper Creek if they can come up with a small pilot signal replacement module? Seems like all of those old chargers surviving could use that circuit, along with the new J-1772 cable of course.

 

[garygid]

This old EVSE might have been "J1772 compatible" at the time, but it appears that it is NOT "FULLY complient" with the J1772-2010 Standards.

Since they no longer support this old EVSE unit:

In the somewhat unlikely event that they were willing to provide circuit schematics and any other technical information that they might still have, I might be able to find a fix.

If they REALLY tossed out all the files, listings, diskettes, etc. for this firmware, then one of the original programmers might still have a copy in an "off-site archive".

The relay-control logic, the measuring of the CP's high-side voltage level, and the generation of the PWM signal are probably all done in firmware, so simple generation of an external PWM signal is unlikely to work. It might be enough to "trick" the LEAF, but might not be enough to "trick" the EVSE at the same time. Replacement of the EVSE's entire logic unit MIGHT be necessary.

 

[Spies]

Have you asked your contacts at Clipper Creek if they can come up with a small pilot signal replacement module? Seems like all of those old chargers surviving could use that circuit, along with the new J-1772 cable of course.

I think I have pretty much exhausted what Clipper Creek will do for me when it comes to this EVSE. Of course they did sell me the Yazaki plug and cable to work with it. Keep in mind they are in the business of selling EVSEs and I am sure they would be willing to sell me a new pilot signal module that is installed inside a Clipper Creek EVSE

What kills me is that this single cycle "feature" was added to the EVSE to get around a bug that I was not even aware of until today that was in Honda EV Plus and now it is causing bug like behavior in my LEAF as a result!

By the way I played with the LEAF timers a little more this afternoon and it appears that the window to plug in after the timer has passed is about 3 minutes. A lot smaller than the 10 minute window I was hoping for. I don't think I can get the pool timer synchronized within 3 minutes which means no 80% club with this EVSE for now

 

[Spies]

Since they no longer support this old EVSE unit:

I don't know what the relationship is between the company that originally made my EVSE called Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc. beyond Jason working for both companies. Anything beyond this would be pure speculation on my part.

I did just take the time to do a search about Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc and it seems from what I can tell EVI became ClipperCreek. Interesting.

I can try getting a hold of Jason again and see if he still has anything on this particular EVSE but the impression I got talking with him today makes me doubt that he does.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Since they no longer support this old EVSE unit:

I don't know what the relationship is between the company that originally made my EVSE called Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc. beyond Jason working for both companies. Anything beyond this would be pure speculation on my part.

I did just take the time to do a search about Electric Vehicle Infrastructure, Inc. and ClipperCreek, Inc and it seems from what I can tell EVI became ClipperCreek. Interesting.

I can try getting a hold of Jason again and see if he still has anything on this particular EVSE but the impression I got talking with him today makes me doubt that he does.

Post your issue to the EVDL board, someone there may have the docs you need.

http://www.evdl.org/

 

[mitch672]

If CC will sell you a "logic board" from one of their current CC-40's, I bet you could install it and it would work just fine. Of course it all depends on how much it costs. It's just running the relay and generating the pilot signal. If they won't sell you a logic board, I'm sure if you wait a bit, there will be some comming available soon, as the DIY's spring up to fill the need for homebrew EVSEs. I bet Gary could whip up something that would work as well

 

[EVDRIVER]

If CC will sell you a "logic board" from one of their current CC-40's, I bet you could install it and it would work just fine. Of course it all depends on how much it costs. It's just running the relay and generating the pilot signal. If they won't sell you a logic board, I'm sure if you wait a bit, there will be some comming available soon, as the DIY's spring up to fill the need for homebrew EVSEs. I bet Gary could whip up something that would work as well

This should be cheap and easy to do as mentioned.

 

[garygid]

EVSE "Logic Card" Replacement:

GFI sensor, relay trip, and retry
Over-Temperature sensing
Brown-out & blackout detection
Error conditions, CP status & Leds
CP sensing and PWM generation
Error states
State transition Logic
Over-Current monitoring
EM noise issues
Off, On, Reset functions
Self-test functions
Any display functions

I am probably forgetting some things.

Replacing all of that, really well done, is non-trivial. Making a square wave generator is trivial.

Apparently the DIY EVSE Project people have been working on the control logic for some time.

Yes, I could do it, but it is a LOT of work, for very little benefit at this point.

 

[mitch672]

EVSE "Logic Card" Replacement:

GFI sensor, relay trip, and retry
Over-Temperature sensing
Brown-out & blackout detection
Error conditions, CP status & Leds
CP sensing and PWM generation
Error states
State transition Logic
Over-Current monitoring
EM noise issues
Off, On, Reset functions
Self-test functions
Any display functions

I am probably forgetting some things.

Replacing all of that, really well done, is non-trivial. Making a square wave generator is trivial.

Apparently the DIY EVSE Project people have been working on the control logic for some time.

Yes, I could do it, but it is a LOT of work, for very little benefit at this point.

For the replacement, I would just provide the pilot signal, and control the energizing relay. You are not going for UL Listing for the reworked old EVSE... Let the circuit breaker provide the overcurrent protection. No, this won't be as good as a J-1772 2010 EVSE, but then again, it doesn't have to be.

 

[EVDRIVER]

EVSE "Logic Card" Replacement:

GFI sensor, relay trip, and retry
Over-Temperature sensing
Brown-out & blackout detection
Error conditions, CP status & Leds
CP sensing and PWM generation
Error states
State transition Logic
Over-Current monitoring
EM noise issues
Off, On, Reset functions
Self-test functions
Any display functions

I am probably forgetting some things.

Replacing all of that, really well done, is non-trivial. Making a square wave generator is trivial.

Apparently the DIY EVSE Project people have been working on the control logic for some time.

Yes, I could do it, but it is a LOT of work, for very little benefit at this point.

For the replacement, I would just provide the pilot signal, and control the energizing relay. You are not going for UL Listing for the reworked old EVSE... Let the circuit breaker provide the overcurrent protection. No, this won't be as good as a J-1772 2010 EVSE, but then again, it doesn't have to be.

+1

 

[mitch672]

FYI, checkout this link, they are comming up with a J-1772 2010 control board, expected to be availble February 2011 (at least they say that, could be delayed a little possibly)

http://modularevpower.com/EVSE_module_development.htm

just wait for this, if CC won't sell you a logic board, and you can update your old EVSE yourself, I'm betting this will cost you a lot less than any other option availble.

 

[garygid]

The scope picture looks like the PWM timing for about a 32-amp Max-Current CP signal.

 

[Spies]

I really do appreciate all the enthusiasm around getting my EVSE to work properly with the LEAF! I have not given up hope just yet and I am gonna try to get the timers to synchronize tonight for the interim.

Trying to hit a three minute or so window reliably with one of these is not going to be easy

 

[garygid]

Instead of that "mechanical" timer, go buy an inexpensive digital timer (something like an alarm clock that will turn on a light, only more "macho") that should be easy to set within a few seconds?

 

[Spies]

Instead of that "mechanical" timer, go buy an inexpensive digital timer (something like an alarm clock that will turn on a light, only more "macho") that should be easy to set within a few seconds?

Are there inexpensive UL listed DPST 40 amp digital timers on the market?

Wait! Just asking this question gave me an idea though! Instead of having the inexpensive digital timer control the EVSE I could just have it control the pilot inside the EVSE. Either by controlling the power to the pilot signal generator or controlling the pilot connecting to the car. That might just be accurate enough to get the timers synched as a work around. It is still not a complete solution of course.

The more I fiddle with this though the more I think I should have just tried to order the AV unit last year and taken the 50% tax credit. I have already sunk almost $400 into retrofitting this unit with the new cable and connector and the AV unit would have been like $900 before the tax benefit. Granted the AV unit is not built anything like the EVSE I have and I was told by ClipperCreek it would work with the LEAF using the new cable and connector and for the most part it does. Sigh.

Maybe I will call ClipperCreek and see if they would still take back the connector and cable since they told me it would work and I can apply that cost to the AV unit. At least I can still get the 30% tax credit.