roperld
Well-known member
I searched but could not find a thread on whether the 6.6-kW charger causes the battery to lose capacity faster than the 3.3-kW charger.
There is no experience to help answer your query, but I'll suggest that even with the 6 kW charger, the charging rate is still quite low considering the battery capacity. For my money, it will not make a bit of difference in the rate of battery derogation.roperld said:I searched but could not find a thread on whether the 6.6-kW charger causes the battery to lose capacity faster than the 3.3-kW charger.
ebill3 said:There is no experience to help answer your query, but I'll suggest that even with the 6 kW charger, the charging rate is still quite low considering the battery capacity. For my money, it will not make a bit of difference in the rate of battery derogation.roperld said:I searched but could not find a thread on whether the 6.6-kW charger causes the battery to lose capacity faster than the 3.3-kW charger.
There were similar discussions about trickle vs 3 kW charging. You might want to review one of the older threads. The upshot was that batteries might prefer C/2 charge rates, in the long run anyway. In the light of this, even 6 kW is pretty slow, since it corresponds to C/4.roperld said:I searched but could not find a thread on whether the 6.6-kW charger causes the battery to lose capacity faster than the 3.3-kW charger.
Minutes Draw Estimated Dash reading
0 0.00 80.00%
5 5.89 81.54%
10 5.89 83.08%
15 5.89 84.62%
20 5.89 86.17%
25 5.89 87.71%
30 5.89 89.25%
35 5.89 90.79%
40 5.89 92.33%
45 5.89 93.87%
50 4.38 95.02%
55 3.69 95.98%
60 2.77 96.71%
65 2.33 97.32%
70 2.15 97.88%
75 1.22 98.20%
80 1.36 98.56%
85 1.00 98.82%
90 0.87 99.04%
95 0.68 99.22%
100 0.69 99.40%
105 0.30 99.48%
110 0.00 99.48%
115 0.51 99.62%
120 1.11 99.91%
125 0.00 99.91%
130 0.32 99.99%
135 0.00 99.99%
140 0.04 100.00%
145 0.00 100.00%
Yea, the table I quoted above was for illustrative purposes only. The numbers and results do not apply to the LEAF. That said, the results of that study illustrate that the difference in degradation based on various charge rates could be quite small, perhaps even negligible. While we cannot be sure what the numbers might look like for the LEAF, the study does show that the concerns about the speed of charging could be overblown, which is relevant to the question the OP has asked.Yogi62 said:That old chart that appears to indicate some very small advantage of C/2 over C/4 is not testing the Leaf battery or charging protocol (did it charge to 100%? What level of discharge?) so I wouldn't put too much weight on it.
smkettner said:In practical use it would appear heat is a far bigger issue than even L3 charging.
The only question to me is how much more temperature rise is there during 6kW charging vs 3.3kW charging.
smkettner said:The only question to me is how much more temperature rise is there during 6kW charging vs 3.3kW charging.
Pretty interesting that it spent an hour around 1 kW topping off the pack and took over 2 hours to charge from 80-100%, though it was pretty much done after an hour.Yogi62 said:FYI, for 2013 on the 6.6kw charger, it starts to taper the charge starting at about 93%.
These are the draw readings at a chargepoint, with the car already charged overnight to 80%.
I don't know - I know for sure that charging on my '11 results in the battery pack sensors reading higher. A 2 hour charge can get the pack a few degrees warmer - the heating isn't even, either. I think some think that the charger coolant lines may be partially responsible, in which case the '13s have it good since the charger and coolant remains under the hood.TomT said:Barely enough to even measure, let alone worry about.
drees said:I don't know - I know for sure that charging on my '11 results in the battery pack sensors reading higher. A 2 hour charge can get the pack a few degrees warmer
Yogi62 said:I'd like to try a drive 40 mph steady speed taking the battery from 80% to LBW and then immediately charge it back to 80% and then repeat. From my calculations that is optimal speed for cross country travel when you can recharge at 6KW/h.
TonyWilliams said:Yogi62 said:I'd like to try a drive 40 mph steady speed taking the battery from 80% to LBW and then immediately charge it back to 80% and then repeat. From my calculations that is optimal speed for cross country travel when you can recharge at 6KW/h.
No, optimum cross country speed for no charging is 12mph, and for charging at 27.5 amps and 240 volts (6.6kW from the wall) is about 5.8kW usable from the battery.
65mph = 4kWh per mile consumed * 21 kWh usable** = 84 miles traveled in 1.29 hours
Refueling at 6.6kW from the wall (5.8kW usable) * 4 = 23.2 miles per hour divided into 84 miles takes 3.62 hours***
So, perfectly positioned charge stations take 4.91 hours to travel 65 miles, or 13.23 miles per hour overall travel
At 23.2mph traveling, I drive at about 8 miles per kWh, so I can travel 168 miles in 7.24 hours and 3.62 hours to refuel equals 10.86 hours, or 15.46 miles per hour overall travel
At 40mph, at 5.9 miles per kWh = 123.9 miles traveled in 3.1 hours + 3.62 charging hours = 6.72 total hours, or 18.4 miles traveled overall per hour.
** (my perfect, brand new condition, warm battery)
*** (not accounting for any inefficiencies for cold batteries, or tapering down of charge at top of charge, or increased internal resistance from degradation)
70.00% DOD
20.00 Battery Capacity
14.00 KW used
3.00 Charge rate kw/h
5 minutes to start/finish charge
KW/draw Speed m/kw Miles Dr/min Ch/min Tot/Min Travel Speed
1.00 5 5.00 70.00 840.00 285.00 1125.0 3.73
1.43 10 7.00 98.00 588.00 285.00 873.00 6.74
1.85 15 8.10 113.40 453.60 285.00 738.60 9.21
2.56 20 7.80 109.20 327.60 285.00 612.60 10.70
3.42 25 7.30 102.20 245.28 285.00 530.28 11.56
4.41 30 6.80 95.20 190.40 285.00 475.40 12.02
5.56 35 6.30 88.20 151.20 285.00 436.20 12.13
6.78 40 5.90 82.60 123.90 285.00 408.90 12.12
8.65 45 5.20 72.80 97.07 285.00 382.07 11.43
10.87 50 4.60 64.40 77.28 285.00 362.28 10.67
12.79 55 4.30 60.20 65.67 285.00 350.67 10.30
15.38 60 3.90 54.60 54.60 285.00 339.60 9.65
18.06 65 3.60 50.40 46.52 285.00 331.52 9.12
21.21 70 3.30 46.20 39.60 285.00 324.60 8.54
25.00 75 3.00 42.00 33.60 285.00 318.60 7.91
29.63 80 2.70 37.80 28.35 285.00 313.35 7.24
35.42 85 2.40 33.60 23.72 285.00 308.72 6.53
42.86 90 2.10 29.40 19.60 285.00 304.60 5.79
70.00% DOD
20.00 Battery Capacity
14.00 KW used
6.00 Charge rate kw/h
5 minutes to start/finish charge
KW/draw Speed m/kw Miles Dr/min Ch/min Tot/Min Travel Speed
1.00 5 5.00 70.00 840.00 145.00 985.00 4.26
1.43 10 7.00 98.00 588.00 145.00 733.00 8.02
1.85 15 8.10 113.40 453.60 145.00 598.60 11.37
2.56 20 7.80 109.20 327.60 145.00 472.60 13.86
3.42 25 7.30 102.20 245.28 145.00 390.28 15.71
4.41 30 6.80 95.20 190.40 145.00 335.40 17.03
5.56 35 6.30 88.20 151.20 145.00 296.20 17.87
6.78 40 5.90 82.60 123.90 145.00 268.90 18.43
8.65 45 5.20 72.80 97.07 145.00 242.07 18.04
10.87 50 4.60 64.40 77.28 145.00 222.28 17.38
12.79 55 4.30 60.20 65.67 145.00 210.67 17.15
15.38 60 3.90 54.60 54.60 145.00 199.60 16.41
18.06 65 3.60 50.40 46.52 145.00 191.52 15.79
21.21 70 3.30 46.20 39.60 145.00 184.60 15.02
25.00 75 3.00 42.00 33.60 145.00 178.60 14.11
29.63 80 2.70 37.80 28.35 145.00 173.35 13.08
35.42 85 2.40 33.60 23.72 145.00 168.72 11.95
42.86 90 2.10 29.40 19.60 145.00 164.60 10.72
70.00% DOD
20.00 Battery Capacity
14.00 KW used
24.00 Charge rate kw/h
5 minutes to start/finish charge
KW/draw Speed m/kw Miles Dr/min Ch/min Tot/Min Travel Speed
1.00 5 5.00 70.00 840.00 40.00 880.00 4.77
1.43 10 7.00 98.00 588.00 40.00 628.00 9.36
1.85 15 8.10 113.40 453.60 40.00 493.60 13.78
2.56 20 7.80 109.20 327.60 40.00 367.60 17.82
3.42 25 7.30 102.20 245.28 40.00 285.28 21.49
4.41 30 6.80 95.20 190.40 40.00 230.40 24.79
5.56 35 6.30 88.20 151.20 40.00 191.20 27.68
6.78 40 5.90 82.60 123.90 40.00 163.90 30.24
8.65 45 5.20 72.80 97.07 40.00 137.07 31.87
10.87 50 4.60 64.40 77.28 40.00 117.28 32.95
12.79 55 4.30 60.20 65.67 40.00 105.67 34.18
15.38 60 3.90 54.60 54.60 40.00 94.60 34.63
18.06 65 3.60 50.40 46.52 40.00 86.52 34.95
21.21 70 3.30 46.20 39.60 40.00 79.60 34.82
25.00 75 3.00 42.00 33.60 40.00 73.60 34.24
29.63 80 2.70 37.80 28.35 40.00 68.35 33.18
35.42 85 2.40 33.60 23.72 40.00 63.72 31.64
42.86 90 2.10 29.40 19.60 40.00 59.60 29.60
Yogi62 said:but can you drive at 65 and then QC repeatedly?
Nice! Any chance that you could find a 16 amp or 3 kW EVSE and get the same type of data to compare? A rise of 3.5 Fahrenheit is nothing to be concerned about, but given that the pack will stay at an elevated temperature for several hours after a charge, this will likely impact battery longevity, even though it will be a small contribution.Yogi62 said:Momentarily back to the original topic:
2 hours and 15 minutes of 6KW charge (from 24.1% SOC to 79.1% SOC) and temp went from 69.9 to 73.4. Yes it warms it up, but not much.
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