Bay Area class tensions relating to tech workers & shuttles

[AndyH]

What it means is protests should be about something meaningful and significant. A bus is neither. And while Buddha teaches us that all life is suffering, these SF protesters are doing quite well. It's not very compelling when the complaint is that someone in a $1million dollar home is being "pushed out" because the prices are being bid up to $2million. Or that rents in one of the most expensive places to live in the country, are going up. The wealthy being pinched by the more wealthy...


I suppose I have failed to make my point clear. I have no shortage of sympathy for suffering, and I do recognize the growing income disparity in the U.S., and I DO AGREE it is a problem. But this is not a justification for any and all random protests. Protesting the "Google buses" is just plain stupid and some of the actions criminal. Saying so doesn't make me a heartless bastard. Because try as they may, those protests really have nothing to do with the people that are really suffering or the underlying causes.

The point I think, Nubo, is that neither of us are in a position to mandate what is or is not significant to another. How sure are you that 'those SF protesters are doing quite well'? Do you know any of them?

Seems to me that you are making a ton of assumptions in order to support your bias and/or preconceptions.

The point of protests, as I struggle to understand them (keep in mind that a 21 year military career doth not a protester make ), is that they have been working through normal channels for years and getting ZERO help. In order to bring the issue into the public view, they have to do something that can break through the narrow filters of the corporately-controlled mess we call 'media' in this country. Nobody is protesting "a bus" - it's not GMC or Greyhound or Bart - it's simply a SYMBOL of one of the symptoms. The point is they have to fight to get some HELP - and this is what it takes today.

Here in Texas, private property has been condemned by TransCanada for the southern leg of the Keystone XL pipeline. Even in a very strong property-rights state, with a team of attorneys and millions in donated cash, landowners fighting to keep heavy equipment off their crops are arrested by local police hired by TransCanada and trained to consider protesters to be domestic terrorists.
http://nacstop.org/standwithjulia/
http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/11/06/texas-farmer-wins-entry-of-default-in-keystone-pipeline-case/
http://www.fwweekly.com/2012/10/17/drawing-line-tar-sand/

In a bizarre response that sounded like that of a backwoods sheriff complaining about dirty hippies in the 1960s, Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson sent out an opinion piece a few days ago, calling the protesters “self-appointed ‘eco-anarchists’ ” for whom it is time “to come down out of the trees, take a bath, and hit the road.”

But the blockade group includes Texas ranchers, property owners, business owners, and environmentalists — some of whom have endured pepper spray, dangerous Taser jolts, and chokeholds administered by local law enforcement officers in attempts to remove them from the path of the pipeline construction.

Dirty hippies - need a bath - sound familiar?

This is not our parent's 1950s world. In this world, a disabled vet with a VA loan guarantee cannot buy a foreclosed house from a bank that WANTS to get the property off their books - even after offering $10,000 (10%) over the list price - because the bank prefers to sell to an 'investor' that walks in with a briefcase of $100 bills and pays 10% LESS than asking price.

This is not the country I thought I was serving, but that's my problem, not yours.
I'll go away now - this horse is dead. Sorry.

 

[Reddy]

I haven't followed this thread, but saw this on CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101415989
Notice the silver Leaf in the background at 1:12

 

[CWO4Mann]

COMRADES, To the barricades! "They shall not pass" 'Ils ne passeront pas/No pasarán! Workers of the world unite you have only your chains to lose! Quickly Comrades, to the Palace of the capitalistic, imperialistic, Wall Street warmonger, Gang of Four, running dog puppets of the Zionist occupiers and their despicable cringing cowardly fellow travelers and plutocratic bourgeois! Aragó, Aragó!, Via Sus! Via Sus!, Sant Jordi! Sant Jordi!.

That pretty much covers it. Just wait until The Little People (not dwarfs). Really get a case of the ass. A case of ass at just about everything happening inside our befuddled and rapidly disintegrating country.

The French Revolution was a mere fly speck in history. I predict 150 to 200 million casualties in the USA before the dust settles. And it is all our own fault.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I can't imagine living my whole life as a renter in a place where the cost of living is so high it's one paycheck to the next.

 

[CWO4Mann]

I can't imagine living my whole life as a renter in a place where the cost of living is so high it's one paycheck to the next.

More common than you might think. Almost all of my rentals are occupied by renters who are always one payment ahead of eviction and most of them have "good jobs": teachers, a fireman, several store managers and five Section 8 people who NEVER are able to pay their share of the Section 8 subsidy mostly less than $25 per month. And they have marginal jobs, when they do work, not for failing to try, I should add. Poor life management, life choices, single parent status, less than 40-hour per week hourly wage jobs barely above the so called minimum wage. These folk are damned to a hard scrabble life. Mostly by their own actions but also but a failure of society.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Yet by world standards they are 1%ers.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/13/1277263/-If-only-the-99-would-stop-whining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[derkraut]

COMRADES, To the barricades! "They shall not pass" 'Ils ne passeront pas/No pasarán! Workers of the world unite you have only your chains to lose! Quickly Comrades, to the Palace of the capitalistic, imperialistic, Wall Street warmonger, Gang of Four, running dog puppets of the Zionist occupiers and their despicable cringing cowardly fellow travelers and plutocratic bourgeois! Aragó, Aragó!, Via Sus! Via Sus!, Sant Jordi! Sant Jordi!.

That pretty much covers it. Just wait until The Little People (not dwarfs). Really get a case of the ass. A case of ass at just about everything happening inside our befuddled and rapidly disintegrating country.

The French Revolution was a mere fly speck in history. I predict 150 to 200 million casualties in the USA before the dust settles. And it is all our own fault.

Man! You gotta slow down on your smokin' & snortin'. Or better yet....move to Cuba or Venezuela, and be happy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[AndyH]

COMRADES, To the barricades! "They shall not pass" 'Ils ne passeront pas/No pasarán! Workers of the world unite you have only your chains to lose! Quickly Comrades, to the Palace of the capitalistic, imperialistic, Wall Street warmonger, Gang of Four, running dog puppets of the Zionist occupiers and their despicable cringing cowardly fellow travelers and plutocratic bourgeois! Aragó, Aragó!, Via Sus! Via Sus!, Sant Jordi! Sant Jordi!.

That pretty much covers it. Just wait until The Little People (not dwarfs). Really get a case of the ass. A case of ass at just about everything happening inside our befuddled and rapidly disintegrating country.

The French Revolution was a mere fly speck in history. I predict 150 to 200 million casualties in the USA before the dust settles. And it is all our own fault.

Man! You gotta slow down on your smokin' & snortin'. Or better yet....move to Cuba or Venezuela, and be happy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't mess with the Chief, kraut - he's spot on.

Guess how many of our folks in uniform rely on welfare and/or aid to dependent children to make ends meet? Let that one sink in for a minute or two...

 

[AndyH]

Yet by world standards they are 1%ers.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/13/1277263/-If-only-the-99-would-stop-whining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You keep saying that** - as if it'll make it all right for ~80% of Americans to be continually run-over by arrogant SOBs that forget we all have the same red blood.

That attitude, LT, is a reflection of the problem, not part of the solution.


edit...
** Sorry, it wasn't you that first said that here, it was Nubo.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=352759#p352759

 

[CWO4Mann]

COMRADES, To the barricades! "They shall not pass" 'Ils ne passeront pas/No pasarán! Workers of the world unite you have only your chains to lose! Quickly Comrades, to the Palace of the capitalistic, imperialistic, Wall Street warmonger, Gang of Four, running dog puppets of the Zionist occupiers and their despicable cringing cowardly fellow travelers and plutocratic bourgeois! Aragó, Aragó!, Via Sus! Via Sus!, Sant Jordi! Sant Jordi!.

That pretty much covers it. Just wait until The Little People (not dwarfs). Really get a case of the ass. A case of ass at just about everything happening inside our befuddled and rapidly disintegrating country.

The French Revolution was a mere fly speck in history. I predict 150 to 200 million casualties in the USA before the dust settles. And it is all our own fault.

Man! You gotta slow down on your smokin' & snortin'. Or better yet....move to Cuba or Venezuela, and be happy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't mess with the Chief, kraut - he's spot on.

Guess how many of our folks in uniform rely on welfare and/or aid to dependent children to make ends meet? Let that one sink in for a minute or two...

---------------

When I stated: " ... These folk are damned to a hard scrabble life. Mostly by their own actions but also but a failure of society ..." I was speaking seriously.

When I ordered you all to the Barricades or to march with Sant Jordi (not the Jordi from Star Trek), I was being sarcastic.

In plain English what I wish to opine is that the USA is in a bad way, today. We have many problems; thee are many people both Left and Right and apolitical who are culpable. It behooves every one of us to "do our part", even if that part is only being polite to the person behind the window at Taco Bell. It means "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". You will find similar guidance in the Bible, the Holy Koran (Mas'a'allah) and in various other religions. I am sure Atheists have similar beliefs, although I can't say for sure, not knowing any.

For those who are damned to that hardscrabble life, if is helpful if those of us who can afford a LEAF, and have the opportunity to post herein, that we do what we can to help.

According to the Prophet Maslow, there will always be strife between "classes" of people or social groupings. It is the revolutionaries, who take advantage of that and foment whatever they want to foment.

Having been to war a couple of times and seen the Elephant, I prefer to foment peace and understanding.

 

[mbender]

Yet by world standards they are 1%ers.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/13/1277263/-If-only-the-99-would-stop-whining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You keep saying that - as if it'll make it all right for ~80% of Americans to be continually run-over by arrogant SOBs that forget we all have the same red blood.

That attitude, LT, is a reflection of the problem, not part of the solution.

To be fair AndyH, "LT" didn't say it the first time, but +1 to what you say nonetheless ;-).

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I can't afford to stay at the Ritz or live in Malibu but I don't feel like a victim of those who can. Hell I couldn't afford to live in CA.

 

[AndyH]

Yet by world standards they are 1%ers.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/13/1277263/-If-only-the-99-would-stop-whining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You keep saying that - as if it'll make it all right for ~80% of Americans to be continually run-over by arrogant SOBs that forget we all have the same red blood.

That attitude, LT, is a reflection of the problem, not part of the solution.

To be fair AndyH, "LT" didn't say it the first time, but +1 to what you say nonetheless ;-).

You're right - I'm sorry. It was Nubo. Fixed.

 

[cwerdna]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/San-Francisco-Board-of-Supervisors-Discuss-Google-Bus-Stops-253499511.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not surprisingly, a bunch of folks tried to block the program

calling for an environmental review to study the impact of the new shuttle program.

Supporters of the review said the diesel emissions and pedestrian safety risks have environmental impacts....

:roll: Uhh.... I think it's pretty obvious that if the shuttles went away and all those workers drove instead, the environmental impact and pedestrian safety risks would be FAR worse.

Another story w/more details on this: http://www.cnet.com/news/san-francisco-tech-shuttle-pilot-program-clears-road-block-appeal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[Nubo]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/San-Francisco-Board-of-Supervisors-Discuss-Google-Bus-Stops-253499511.html
Not surprisingly, a bunch of folks tried to block the program

calling for an environmental review to study the impact of the new shuttle program.

Supporters of the review said the diesel emissions and pedestrian safety risks have environmental impacts....

:roll: Uhh.... I think it's pretty obvious that if the shuttles went away and all those workers drove instead, the environmental impact and pedestrian safety risks would be FAR worse.

Another story w/more details on this: http://www.cnet.com/news/san-francisco-tech-shuttle-pilot-program-clears-road-block-appeal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Unfortunately, environmental impact studies are often used as a legal bludgeon of last resort. Bend to our will or we will drown you in paperwork and legal proceedings even though we know we're prosecuting a false pretense. How do you win hearts and minds with dishonorable tactics?

Who, exactly, will win if the shuttles are disbanded? Who wins if they are not disbanded? As far as I can make out, nobody wins from this confrontation except maybe some lawyers.

 

[cwerdna]

Yahoo bus blockaded, puked on in Oakland:
http://www.cnet.com/news/yahoo-apple-buses-blockaded-and-puked-on-in-oakland/

Protesters Block, Vomit on Tech Commuter Buses at MacArthur BART Station:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...cked-at-MacArthur-Bart-Station-253621801.html

 

[Rat]

Forget the gentrification thing for a minute. As entertaining as the mudslinging and irrational diatribe has been on this thread, let me "digress" into what I think is most relevant to the body of readers on the forum, which is transportation policy as it relates to these evil buses. I'm not in the 1% but we own our home in Silicon Valley and the way real estate prices keep soaring, we might be before I die, not that it will change anything about how we live. Most of my life I've worked as a government hump, and before retirement my last job was at VTA - the Valley Transportation Authority - which is the transit/highway district for Santa Clara County (the heart of Silicon Valley).

The short version is: it is simply good policy to encourage all forms of mass transportation, whether public or private. That includes carpooling and those Google buses. VTA and the other transportation agencies in the Bay Area all have long had policies that not only encourage private companies to move to bus use (both private and public) but also have almost forced them to. Building permits for those big buildings used by Google, Microsoft, et al. were only granted contingent on an approved transit plan, including paying for bus/light rail passes for employees, building bus stops or turnaround sites, extending bicycle paths, etc. In my very brief term in private industry, VTA even made our company build a light rail station right in our parking lot and dedicate a portion of the lot to transit riders' cars! It's better for everyone both for environmental reasons and congestion reasons. As EV owners I would think everyone here would be delighted to learn that our government agencies are trying to get more gas guzzlers and single driver vehicles off the roads. Of course it would be better if a lot more employees would live close to where they work. As it happens, VTA and all the other transportation agencies in the region are trying to make that happen, too, by promoting all kinds of TOD projects (Transit Oriented Development), but I won't go into the details. The simple fact is that these companies are just doing what the government wants both because it is in the public good and because they are given strong incentives (both carrot and stick) to do so. Oh, yes, those EV charging stations we all love are part of those transportation plans, too. Every California county is required by law to have a congestion management agency; VTA is the one for Santa Clara County and part of that is to work with air quality board to reduce vehicle emissions, including promoting EVs. Of course those buses help that too. We should all thank the companies with their big buses, and the government agencies, too. But they can only do so much. If the 1% at Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc. want to live in close proximity to a B&D pickup bar, they're going to live in SF (the only reason anyone would want to live there IMO) and get to work however they can. Without the buses they'd be clogging up the highways.

 

[GRA]

^ I'm sorry, your post is full of facts and lacks any overblown rhetoric, and thus is unsuitable for this topic :lol:

(Living within walking distance of my city center and a BART station and commuting by bike since 2000, but not within screaming distance of the 1%, nor ever will be - go buses, including the Genentech one that I occasionally see passing through or dropping people off!)

 

[cwerdna]

Well said, Rat!

I really wish those stupid protestors blocking tech worker shuttles, vomiting on them, etc. would see the bigger picture and understand the mandates you've mentioned.

 

[AndyH]

The simple fact is that these companies are just doing what the government wants both because it is in the public good and because they are given strong incentives (both carrot and stick) to do so.

Thanks for the view, Rat. I'd like to point out a very significant problem with this point, however. This is not something that can be simply 'dumped' on the 'government' - the businesses that moved there played the negotiation game - just as Tesla is now with the mega battery plant. They play one area against the other to get the best incentives. A corporation, no matter what their PR department says, is in business for their shareholders, not the local transit district. A corporation/facility large enough to be a desirable addition to a 'high rent neighborhood' is also large enough to own the local political process and thus get exactly what they want from the local community.

Keep in mind also that the point of the protests is not to stop buses - it's to highlight the need for social balance. Therefore, this is not something that can be spun in the "aren't buses better than cars?" direction, either.