Calif potential buyers: Wld you still buy w/o the CA rebate?

[mxp]

The CA rebate for $5k is almost gone, and the $2.5k rebate is not certain, this brings up some decision points especially for California prospective buyers....
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4389

Assuming that the 5k and the 2.5k rebates are GONE, would you still buy the LEAF? That is the question and why? Pls share your thoughts and feedback.

Here is my view to share:
The typical purchase price of a SL LEAF is around $40k (incl CA taxes, delivery, rego etc) out the door, EXCLUDING factoring in the $7,500 tax rebate, $5k or $2.5k credits.

For $40k plus some more, I could easily get into a nice luxury marque with 1.99% finance or some similar luxury car promotion deal. We have an ICE car we need to rid and the LEAF was a nice option to try out without getting rid of the old car. If we went the route of a non-electric car, we can easily trade in the old ICE and that reduces the initial purchase further.

To me, the price of owning an electric commuter car around $30k out the door price (incl all the credits/rebate) was a decent amount to pay for, ASSUMING no trade in of an ICE car as backup. Without the incentives, the LEAF is an overpriced product for a 1st Gen electric product.

Please try not to flame me. There are obviously lots of angles and reasons for an electric vehicle ownership, but my main gripe is the TOTAL PRICE of the LEAF and how it sits competitively with other vehicle options. In my case, I also have an ICE car to trade in being a factor for "total pricing" being considered.

 

[davewill]

This is silly. The new rebate is certain. In fact it's better because it won't run out so quick next year. There's nothing afoot for repealing it. Most of the rest of the country is chomping at the bit to buy without such a rebate...need I go on?

 

[SharonaLA]

My Leaf SL-e was only $37,000 with tax, title and license because the dealer gave me $1,000 off MSRP and I participated in the etec project.

 

[TomT]

Without any CA rebate, we likely would have bought the Mini Cooper Clubman S instead... We had a deal negotiated for one with just about every available option and 0.9% financing for $31K, including a $1K off coupon from the Mini Tour...

Off course, I could have also kept the 3 series Bimmer which is paid for, runs great, much fun, and gets pretty good gas mileage (about 24 city and 32 highway), and done nothing...

(Let the flames begin <grin>!)

 

[rnkepler]

Without the incentives, the LEAF is an overpriced product for a 1st Gen electric product.

That's one take on it, but I consider the LEAF significantly under priced. Nissan is certainly losing money each car it sells considering all the R&D costs that went into it.

 

[surfingslovak]

There is nothing that comes close to the Leaf in terms of price to value ratio. Cutting the CA rebate in half or nixing it altogether doesn't change that fact. I'm somewhat price-sensitive and the rebate is a deal breaker for me personally.

 

[evnow]

Without the incentives, the LEAF is an overpriced product for a 1st Gen electric product.

So, nobody in any other state should buy Leaf ?

Anyway, it is almost certain that EVs 5 to 10 years down the line will cost less. Are you willing to wait ?

 

[MsLusty]

I am very sad to see the $5k rebate go poof before I get my car. That said, price is not really the reason I'm buying an electric car. I see this as a down payment on building a real market for electric cars. Somebody has to do it, and I'm in a position to, so there's no way I will change my mind because of $2500. And I also think that even at $34k the Leaf is an incredible value considering all the R&D that has gone into it.

 

[mxp]

Without any CA rebate, we likely would have bought the Mini Cooper Clubman S instead... We had a deal negotiated for one with just about every available option and 0.9% financing for $31K, including a $1K off coupon from the Mini Tour...

(Let the flames begin <grin>!)

That is exactly my view. My personal circumstance is that I have a trade-in that can further be applied to any one of these similar ICE (or Hybrid new car deals) where the finance could be as low like these 0.9% offers. The LEAF's lease finance is a whoppping 3.5%. Without the CA credits, one really needs to do the math and consider...

In my case, I was going to purchase anyways, and keeping the ICE as backup.

For SharonaLA who mentioned SL-e $37,000 with tax, title and license, and the dealer $1,000 off MSRP, I don't know.

The typical SL deal looks like:
Base 33720.00
QC 700.00
Mats 170.00
Dest 820.00
MSRP 35410.00 plus $3,700 for Ca taxes and rego.

That is why I said $40k-ish out-the-door.

 

[smkettner]

I would be dissapointed but I would still buy. Dissapointed because it was 5,000 when I signed up.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Assuming that the 5k and the 2.5k rebates are GONE, would you still buy the LEAF? That is the question and why?

Only with a 6.6kW charger. And details like interior materials will be more important in what ends up being a more expensive car. I see waiting for US production where Nissan has more pricing margin and more competition to improve quality or reduce MSRP to maintain value.

 

[gbshaun]

It seemed that, even taking the population size into account, a disproportionate number of sales were to CA.
I know there are other factors, but the difference between $25k and $30k would have to be part of it. How much? Tough to say.
It'll be even harder (for us) to tell the effect of $27.5k Vs $30k going forward.
The number of MNL'ers who throw the towel in will give some clue, but those on this board are not the typical customer. Most of us really wanted an EV. If this car was not available at this price, or close to it, I'd have bought nothing at all as i really didn't NEED a new car (closest I've ever come is a 3 year old Minivan, which is working fine at 10 y/o).
So I'd be giving it serious thought tonight if i hadn't squeaked in.

I do understand the logic of reducing the rebate amount and thus spreading it twice as wide.

 

[mxp]

I would be dissapointed but I would still buy. Dissapointed because it was 5,000 when I signed up.

Today was kinda a low point for me throughout the whole Nissan Leaf saga....

Just feeling really crushed today; I mean the whole waiting patiently and seeing all the DB dates changing around etc etc. I reserved 04/23/2010 and I am supposed to take delivery 06/23/2011. It will be 1 year and 2 months of waiting just to miss out on the $5k rebate.

I just can't help feeling being at a really low point today..... :-(

 

[juniorboy90210]

I would be dissapointed but I would still buy. Dissapointed because it was 5,000 when I signed up.

Today was kinda a low point for me throughout the whole Nissan Leaf saga....

Just feeling really crushed today; I mean the whole waiting patiently and seeing all the DB dates changing around etc etc. I reserved 04/23/2010 and I am supposed to take delivery 06/23/2011. It will be 1 year and 2 months of waiting just to miss out on the $5k rebate.

I just can't help feeling being at a really low point today..... :-(

I'm in the same boat. The price of the car should continue to go down over time and the quality of the battery will improve over time so the incentive to be one of the early adopter of an electric car has been significantly reduced for me with not getting the full $5,000 rebate. If you can, you might as well wait for the 2012 model at this point since you are not missing out on any incentive.

 

[TomT]

Since the 2012 is not going to have any upgrades over the 2011, and may actually cost more, I don't see the point...

If you can, you might as well wait for the 2012 model at this point since you are not missing out on any incentive.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I'd buy it again, no question. Still comes in $7,000 under the Volt even without the CA Rebate. I would like to have 6.6 kW charging (25 miles/hour of charging) vs. the current 3.3 kW (12.5 miles/hour of charging) and I'd like to be able to spend a few thousand more for another 20 miles of range, but it would be nice to have that as a trim level type option, so that those that need it can spend a little more while those that don't can save some money on the purchase. Plug In Prius and Ford Focus EV aren't even available yet.

The LEAF will do very well to get me through the next 4-8 years when the "Next Thing" with faster charging, longer range, lower cost, etc.. will be available and I'll be able to order and get it in months instead of over a year. Oh yeah, and that one will ship with the Android Smart Phone App for the vehicle from day one! :lol:

It is interesting how much people evaluate the price for an EV. When was the last time you heard someone say they weren't going to buy a Ford Expedition, Porsche Cayenne, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, etc. because there wasn't a $5,000 rebate to bring the price down. Be interesting to have the same detailed costs of ownership and why did you spend over $25,000 for your vehicle of all the existing gas vehicles that reatail for $25,000 or more...

Why'd I get it? It's a great car and it's a responsive, reliable, very easy to control and park, serene, economical (relatively) driving experience for me that is unmatched by any vibrating gasoline vehicle.

On the economic side, to be economical, don't buy a new car, get a reliable used car or if you can, avoid the expense of car ownership altogether and bike, walk, use public transit, telecommute, etc... So yes, I bought a new LEAF, it just amuses me how there's a focus on costs for EVs that doesn't seem to happen for existing gas vehicles of the same or much higher costs. Among policy makers, they have commented that the HOV stickers are a much more powerful incentive than the rebates.

All that said, thank you to those providing the rebates to make it a little easier for myself and others to get into these clean cars and clean up the air and reduce energy dependence which is it benefit for everyone. The rebates certianly made it an easier decision.

 

[SharonaLA]

Without any CA rebate, we likely would have bought the Mini Cooper Clubman S instead... We had a deal negotiated for one with just about every available option and 0.9% financing for $31K, including a $1K off coupon from the Mini Tour...

(Let the flames begin <grin>!)

That is exactly my view. My personal circumstance is that I have a trade-in that can further be applied to any one of these similar ICE (or Hybrid new car deals) where the finance could be as low like these 0.9% offers. The LEAF's lease finance is a whoppping 3.5%. Without the CA credits, one really needs to do the math and consider...

In my case, I was going to purchase anyways, and keeping the ICE as backup.

For SharonaLA who mentioned SL-e $37,000 with tax, title and license, and the dealer $1,000 off MSRP, I don't know.

The typical SL deal looks like:
Base 33720.00
QC 700.00
Mats 170.00
Dest 820.00
MSRP 35410.00 plus $3,700 for Ca taxes and rego.

That is why I said $40k-ish out-the-door.

Several dealers (Fontana, Miller Nissan in Van Nuys) will sell it at $32,720. The QC is free if you are part of the ETEC program. Tax is less on the lower amount... That probably makes up most of the difference...

 

[juniorboy90210]

Without any CA rebate, we likely would have bought the Mini Cooper Clubman S instead... We had a deal negotiated for one with just about every available option and 0.9% financing for $31K, including a $1K off coupon from the Mini Tour...

(Let the flames begin <grin>!)

That is exactly my view. My personal circumstance is that I have a trade-in that can further be applied to any one of these similar ICE (or Hybrid new car deals) where the finance could be as low like these 0.9% offers. The LEAF's lease finance is a whoppping 3.5%. Without the CA credits, one really needs to do the math and consider...

In my case, I was going to purchase anyways, and keeping the ICE as backup.

For SharonaLA who mentioned SL-e $37,000 with tax, title and license, and the dealer $1,000 off MSRP, I don't know.

The typical SL deal looks like:
Base 33720.00
QC 700.00
Mats 170.00
Dest 820.00
MSRP 35410.00 plus $3,700 for Ca taxes and rego.

That is why I said $40k-ish out-the-door.

Several dealers (Fontana, Miller Nissan in Van Nuys) will sell it at $32,720. The QC is free if you are part of the ETEC program. Tax is less on the lower amount... That probably makes up most of the difference...

Keep in mind that the base price does not include the quick charge port which you need to be able to quick charge your battery if needed so it is more than $32,720.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Several dealers (Fontana, Miller Nissan in Van Nuys) will sell it at $32,720. The QC is free if you are part of the ETEC program. Tax is less on the lower amount... That probably makes up most of the difference...

The ETEC program is pretty valuable - it's worth $1500 to $2500 worth of EV charger installation costs unless you do it yourself, do the EVSE Upgrade or just 120V (4.5 mile/hour of charging) and don't install a wall mounted EVSE. And if you wanted the Quick Charge port, that's another $700.

If you're getting a charger and want the Quick Charge port the value of the ETEC is more than the $2,500 CVRP rebate reduction from this year to next year. And that's a better deal than early adopters got the went with Aerovironment's $2500 charger + installation with no quick charge port, even though they got the $5,000 CVRP.

I certainly got lucky (and informed) when I waited out the AV quote in hopes of better charger options. At the time, there was no information that EVProject would be availalbe in the SF Bay Area. I was going to do 120V charging since that would more than cover my daily needs until a better option came along. I got into the EVProject something like a month before I got the LEAF, and the Blink was installed 2 days after I took delivery of the LEAF. And then there's Ingineer...

 

[smkettner]

It is interesting how much people evaluate the price for an EV. When was the last time you heard someone say they weren't going to buy a Ford Expedition, Porsche Cayenne, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, etc. because there wasn't a $5,000 rebate to bring the price down. Be interesting to have the same detailed costs of ownership and why did you spend over $25,000 for your vehicle of all the existing gas vehicles that reatail for $25,000 or more...

Well if I ordered that vehicle with a $5,000 manufacturer rebate in place I again would be dissapointed if the rebate changed to $2,500 as I got called some time later to pick it up. I might even consider a different model at that point.