Car has far too many useability problems

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

johnr

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
884
Location
Exeter, CA
With nearly 3 years owning a LEAF as my daily driver, I feel it's time to express my true thoughts. The one thing that's great about the LEAF is its electric drivetrain: Simple, reliable, performs well. Also I like the UV-blocking windows and the quiet windshield wipers (features which are not exclusive to this car of course). But nearly everything else about it - most of the basic features of any car - were so poorly conceived in the LEAF it boggles the mind!

The fact it takes a tedious sequence of several button presses to turn on the vent without using A/C or heat
The heater takes several minutes to warm up and blows cold air in the mean time
The nag screen that comes on every time the car is started
The fact it goes to Neutral if you try to go into gear before it has finished booting up
It used to go into Neutral if you try to start it when plugged in - a real danger on an inclining driveway - but it doesn't seem to do this any more
The brake pedal goes klunk if you press it too soon after entering the car, or if you wait too long after entering
Regenerative braking is largely lost when on rougher pavement
The braking force is unpredictable - clearly the car adjusts braking pressure based on a variety of factors, taking over my responsibility as the driver
Unintended acceleration ramps up to maximum power from a stop when pressing the go pedal moderately in D, let go and press again and it returns to normal
The GPS is very slow in responding when entering in an address or editing a route
The GPS locks out when the car is in motion - so even my passenger cannot enter an address without me having to park the car
Navigating the nav screen is quite tedious and not at all intuitive - and this coming from someone who has lots of computer experience
The maps have many errors and show charging stations that don't exist - supposedly there's one at the edge of a farmer's field just out of town
The visibility is very poor - the side pillars totally block the street corners at intersections, so I have to do a side-to-side dance to peek around them to watch for pedestrians
The choice to use a push-button start-stop doesn't work so well for an EV in practice, for several reasons that I've experienced
The charging port door cannot be opened from outside
The car wobbles a lot in turns - clearly the suspension needs some major tuning
The range bars on the display are always 12 on a full charge, even as the battery ages, meaning that the number of miles in each bar diminishes so I can't rely on the accuracy of even the range bars
The car eats up tires in a hurry - probably because the tires struggle to maintain traction on each wobble of its wobbly suspension when going around turns
To view the status of the climate control you have to navigate through several screens on the center computer
When slowing gradually and then engaging in stop-and-go traffic, the brakes become super-sensitive resulting in the car lurching embarrassingly and dangerously
I don't like having regen on the accelerator pedal - it makes it difficult when I want to just coast
The sun visors are too small
The rear seat head rests are too large and impair visibility out the rear window
A couple of the window motors are already showing signs of wearing out

...and meanwhile, Nissan won't take any of these issues seriously. I took it to the dealer and the technicians verified some of these issues - but as it didn't generate any "codes" they explained it away as compromises Nissan had to make because it's a heavier vehicle - well I'm not buying that cop-out. It's great that they decided to make an electric car, but their implementation of the basic car stuff - not the high tech electric stuff, but just the basic simple car stuff! - they failed at miserably. This was my first Nissan, and I assure you I have learned my lesson and my next car will not be a Nissan!
 
Most of your issues (except the nav system issues) have been addressed w/the '13 Leaf, some w/the SV and above trim.

I have no issue w/"car wobbles a lot in turns". The car's no sports car (had a 350Z for almost 8 years and have driven other RWD cars that are known for good handling) but it handles decently for a FWD non-sports car of its size class.

As for "To view the status of the climate control you have to navigate through several screens on the center computer", can't you just press Status a couple times until the right screen comes up?

Re: side-pillar visibility, specifically A-pillars, this is a problem common w/many cars and isn't likely going to get significantly better. We've had many discussions about why numerous times before. It's about equivalent to that of my 06 Prius.
 
Pressing "status" twice also works, I've just gotten used to viewing the "energy info" screen - so I guess that's not so major. Still, it would be nice if the heater had a button with an indicator light just like the A/C does.

My previous car was a Hyundai Elantra sedan, also FWD and not a sports car either - and it never wobbled around in turns. I don't remember the Leaf doing this at first either, but it gradually became quite noticeable and I can even hear the tires trying to grip as it wobbles back and forth several times.

The side-pillar visibility is a major problem. I haven't been unlucky enough to experience any other cars with this problem but I can understand why it might be shared by some cars with a similar shape, such as the Prius. And it's not like they couldn't design it away, either - there are cars that are more aerodynamic than the LEAF that also have good visibility. The rear-window visibility could be addressed by making the backup camera standard on all trims (why should my SV be less safe than an SL)

I'm sure a lot of the issues could be resolved with software updates and just a small amount of labor, so if you're correct that some of them have been addressed in the '13 Leaf, then why is Nissan leaving us early-adopters high-and-dry?
 
johnr said:
The rear-window visibility could be addressed by making the backup camera standard on all trims (why should my SV be less safe than an SL)
It became standard on all trims on the '14.

Nissan knows about the rear visibility issues from the rear head restraints and partly addressed that in the '13 (http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) w/smaller rear head restraints. A product manager (IIRC) from Nissan HQ of TN came to speak at Nissan's Sunnyvale R&D office and made some claim about their current size (IIRC) due to regulations. IIRC, he was a product manager for the Leaf, GT-R and possibly the 370Z, as well.

I ran w/o the rear head restraints for awhile then put them back on and turned them 90 degrees. (I have the premium package which gives me Around View Monitor, so I have 4 cameras, including rear.)

Many of our gripes were presented to Nissan in a presentation at meeting at Google in December 2011. Most of the slides are at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=243337#p243337" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. A bit more info at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=243204#p243204" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I was at that meeting. It was awesome! Kadota-san, Leaf's Chief Vehicle Engineer was there + Mark Perry + some Nissan execs and engineers from Japan. A couple Leafers flew in for the meeting, including Tony Williams.

Quite a few of the complaints/requests from that meeting were addressed in the '13 model year.

Re: A-pillars, here's a thread I dug up: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
 
sorry,for me its the most perfect car i ever had,right before my porsche 928s i had in the early 90's.
now i am working on a mobile gas rex for the leaf.
 
johnr said:
The GPS locks out when the car is in motion - so even my passenger cannot enter an address without me having to park the car

Have your passenger enter the address on their cellphone, and send it to the Leaf with an application like "Send to Leaf" on Windows Phone.


johnr said:
The rear seat head rests are too large and impair visibility out the rear window

Tall people that have gotten rear ended hard enough to total the car are happy with the large head rests. No whiplash.


johnr said:
The car eats up tires in a hurry ...The car wobbles a lot in turns

I suspect you have something loose or unusually worn in your suspension. I've not see this issues in both my last car, and in the several 2011's I've test driven at dealers.

I agree with many of your issues. This is a version 1.0 mass production electric car. If you don't want issues like this, wait for at least service pack 2, or maybe revision 3.1 or later.
 
WetEV said:
I suspect you have something loose or unusually worn in your suspension. I've not see this issues in both my last car, and in the several 2011's I've test driven at dealers.

I agree with many of your issues. This is a version 1.0 mass production electric car. If you don't want issues like this, wait for at least service pack 2, or maybe revision 3.1 or later.

On the first point, also try an alignment. As others have said, we're not seeing this problem.

I agree on the second point. The 2013 addressed a large number of these issues. When we got our 2011/2012s we knew we were early adopters. Some chose to pay a premium to be the among the earliest of early adopters, others waited until early demand subsided and paid competitive prices. Some of the people in the former group are more sensitive to flaws in the LEAF because of the higher price that was paid.

I still think it's a great car, even before 2013, which is why we got a second one. Yes, there are some issues here, but the trade-off is driving pure electric.
 
You left out the infernal A/C (climate) control panel that seems to always think it knows better; when you change one setting it decides to also change another.
 
johnr said:
The GPS locks out when the car is in motion - so even my passenger cannot enter an address without me having to park the car

I posted a fix for this 1-2 years ago. You simply interrupt the speed signal to the GPS, using a SPST switch. I use mine fairly regularly to navigate the folders when playing MP3's.
 
johnr said:
...and meanwhile, Nissan won't take any of these issues seriously.
I think you lose your case with this statement.

Many of the problems you note have been addressed in '13 (and may be further in '14). This says Nissan takes the problems seriously and addresses them.
 
Have the suspension checked.
The LEAF is not a German sports sedan, but overall it's handling is quite a bit better than my 2009 Altima, especially at handling sweeping curves at a higher speed due to the low center of gravity.
But on a very sharp quick turn the front suspension is fairly soft and the inside tire does dive a lot due to the vehicle weight and load transfer to that tire.
If you do much of that and also fail to run higher tire pressure than Nissan specs, you will also destroy the OME tires quickly.
 
As a Leaf owner for 2.5 years, I have to say that most of this list is of little relevance to my day-to-day driving. The only significant problems are:

--Can't run fan only when temperature is less than 60 degrees (hopefully fixed in 2013 model, haven't checked)
--Battery longevity is far less than claimed
--No SOC indicator (fixed in 2013 model or by getting a Gid meter)

Everything else is pretty minor.
 
Stoaty said:
As a Leaf owner for 2.5 years, I have to say that most of this list is of little relevance to my day-to-day driving. The only significant problems are:

--Can't run fan only when temperature is less than 60 degrees (hopefully fixed in 2013 model, haven't checked)
...
--No SOC indicator (fixed in 2013 model or by getting a Gid meter)
The above 2 are addressed on the '13. '13 SV and SL have a dedicated heater on/off button.

I almost never use auto but if the heat and AC buttons are off, it won't even let you change the air temp.
 
My list of the '13's usability problems:

* Grabby brakes unless you turn off the traction control, which makes them just slightly grabby brakes.

* Like the Prius, the car doesn't 'boot up' fast enough, and I often find myself in neutral when I'm in a hurry to move.

* The climate control deserves its own sub-heading: lack of recirculate option in Floor-Defrost mode, tiny on/off button that gloves can't find, huge Auto button that many drivers don't even use, quirky display that sometimes will and sometimes won't register changes in temp settings...

* No spare. I currently have a big Altima donut spare sitting under a false floor in back that I still have to safely anchor. Talk about "kit cars'...

* No indicator for which heater is in use, or provision for suggesting that the driver lower temp setting because heat pump is ineffective at current temp.

* No indoor temp reading.

* Bipolar steering wheel heater, with its button in a truly dangerous location - at least the latter is now fixed!

* A $32k car (or if you prefer, a $20k car after allowing for batteries) with no rear window washer.
 
LeftieBiker said:
My list of the '13's usability problems:

* Grabby brakes unless you turn off the traction control, which makes them just slightly grabby brakes.
...

* The climate control deserves its own sub-heading: l... tiny on/off button that gloves can't find, huge Auto button that many drivers don't even use, quirky display that sometimes will and sometimes won't register changes in temp settings...

* No spare. I currently have a big Altima donut spare sitting under a false floor in back that I still have to safely anchor. Talk about "kit cars'...

* No indicator for which heater is in use, or provision for suggesting that the driver lower temp setting because heat pump is ineffective at current temp.
...
* Bipolar steering wheel heater, with its button in a truly dangerous location - at least the latter is now fixed!

* A $32k car (or if you prefer, a $20k car after allowing for batteries) with no rear window washer.
I agree w/most your gripes that I left in. As for tiny on/off button, I don't use it but I don't use auto either. I agree about the strange size. As for not registering temp changes, I've never hit that.

As for wheel heater, agree totally.

As for no rear window washer, huh? I have it. I even used it yesterday. Examine your wiper stalk more carefully and how to get it to spray the rear.
 
Damn, I have a rear washer that doesn't work??? That figures... Thanks. I have had several of them over the years, and know how to activate them, so it must be DOA.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Damn, I have a rear washer that doesn't work??? That figures... Thanks. I have had several of them over the years, and know how to activate them, so it must be DOA.
Check out page 2-40 of the manual.

I don't recall if the action is the same to spray as it was on my 04 350Z's.
 
yep ... glass half empty or half full
OP may need to watch a Lewis CK comedy session. Everything's perfect ... but nobody's happy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpUNA2nutbk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.
 
If you've never used the rear-window washer before, it can take a very long time for the fluid to reach the back when you first push down on the lever.

The problem is that they warn you can burn out the unit if you leave it engaged for over 30 seconds.

Another problem is that the factory fluid will have frozen solid if you're weather's like mine.
 
Back
Top