Changing the minds of peers on week 1

[electrifeyed]

Conservatives of every stripe should appreciate electric cars:
1. Reduced use of imported oil makes the nation more secure. At the very least, it makes more fuel available for military & other defense applications. It takes money out of the hands of oil producers, many of whom are adversaries of the US, and keeps it in the US.
2. The Leaf is assembled in the US, so at least some portion of the purchase supports US workers.
3. If you want to buy a car that is electric and mostly US content, more of these will soon become available in volume; meanwhile, the Leaf (and Chevy Volt, by the way) are generating demand for improved charging infrastructure, which will be help for the US fleet. Also, BTW, a lot of the charging equipment is US made as well.

What's not to like?

 

[davewill]

... What's not to like?

Mostly that liberals like them for all those reasons, plus their environmental pluses. Unfortunately politics is defined by being against people and ideas and picking sides instead of practical governing.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I never got much attention for my 2010 Prius but the Leaf is a different animal. Views in general are changing. They have to. See how many Prii are out there? Seems like every fifth car is a third gen prius. But the Leaf is uniquely interesting because of its powertrain. I don't know anybody who would approach me mockingly over the car anyway, but it is impossible not to be an ambassador to some degree.

People do absolutely have range anxiety. Will take a long time for some people to get used to the idea that it has a limited range and then a long charge time, but that's in most cases completely fine. Use a gas car for trips.

I now have a gas guzzling minivan, and a Leaf.

 

[smkettner]

I have the answer when they say you "how unfair it is that I get a 7500 tax credit to 'subsidize my car' and since I am not buying gas that I am not paying my fair share in taxes for the roads...", it's most unfair that they can drive with a car that emits carcinogenic gases and when they gas buy send money to countries enemies of America like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, and all the americans must pay a war in Middle Est to protect the oil interests and that it's really expensive.

I ask if it is fair for the renters that the government subsidizes the homeowner with the mortgage/property tax deductions?

Besides I do not write the tax laws. I just use them to my advantage like anyone else.

 

[thehelix112]

Yeah a bunch of my peers are quite skeptical about it, but every one of them has been very pleasantly surprised after a test drive in it.
Another favourite I've found is people saying that "green cars" produce more emissions by being made than normal cars. I guess I could kinda of see that for hybrids where you need to do everything for an ICE, then you add on top all the stuff for the electric drivetrain, but that's unlikely to be the case for a car that simply doesn't have a bunch of parts: transmission, exhaust, fuel pumps, fuel lines, an entire ICE, etc etc. I also mention to people who ask that the LEAF, it's battery and drivetrain are all made in the US.

Most people at least seem somewhat convinced.

Dave

 

[apvbguy]

^^^

(And, no, I don't really care to get sucked into a gun debate online... I sometimes take a peek every now and then.)

there is no gun debate, as long as you respect my rights there is nothing else to discuss.

but in case you were curious I'd ask what part shall not be infringed gets so many people confused

 

[thehelix112]

^^^

(And, no, I don't really care to get sucked into a gun debate online... I sometimes take a peek every now and then.)

there is no gun debate, as long as you respect my rights there is nothing else to discuss.

but in case you were curious I'd ask what part shall not be infringed gets so many people confused

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9441" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; would seem the appropriate place for your comments to me.

Dave

 

[cwerdna]

Another favourite I've found is people saying that "green cars" produce more emissions by being made than normal cars. I guess I could kinda of see that for hybrids where you need to do everything for an ICE, then you add on top all the stuff for the electric drivetrain, but that's unlikely to be the case for a car that simply doesn't have a bunch of parts: transmission, exhaust, fuel pumps, fuel lines, an entire ICE, etc etc. I also mention to people who ask that the LEAF, it's battery and drivetrain are all made in the US.

Yep, the above originated from the thoroughly debunked Art Spinella/CNW "junk science" that refuses to die, that also was perpetuated by Top Gear. :roll:

Priuses and Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive hybrids and others w/similar design (e.g. Ford hybrids) have no alternator, no starter and the motors/generators are integrated into the transaxle (power split device).

Most of an ICEV's energy consumption is via usage (~80%), NOT manufacture or disposal/recycling. See http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-may-not-save-as-much-as-you-think.120752/page-4#post-1730356" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for more details and calculations.

 

[Nubo]

^^^

(And, no, I don't really care to get sucked into a gun debate online... I sometimes take a peek every now and then.)

there is no gun debate, as long as you respect my rights there is nothing else to discuss.

but in case you were curious I'd ask what part shall not be infringed gets so many people confused

Please, not here.

 

[apvbguy]

^^^

(And, no, I don't really care to get sucked into a gun debate online... I sometimes take a peek every now and then.)

there is no gun debate, as long as you respect my rights there is nothing else to discuss.

but in case you were curious I'd ask what part shall not be infringed gets so many people confused

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9441" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; would seem the appropriate place for your comments to me.

Dave

thanks for the advise

 

[MatimalND]

I am a gun-toting, bible thumping Republican, and I love EVs

+1

 

[Pipcecil]

I work in a fairly liberal office - mostly due to the type of work (transporation planning and air quality conformity) - this usually lends itself to people looking at the leaf admirably. But my boss's boss is one of those that will never be persuaded. Besides cracking the random jive (hey, it rained today, I guess you didn't take your electric car to work...), he outright refuses to accept the car as anything "normal." He refuses to ride the car if we go to lunch - completely refuses. He at first cited it was too small and you couldn't any more than 2 because it was a tiny car. When I try to rebuff saying its the same size, if not larger than the prius we were taking (all the while my car is parked in the isle across from the prius so he can see it), he just scoffs saying I am argumentative.

Then, I guess lossing that battle he says we can't drive in anything that is "unsafe." I try to explain that the car has exceptional crash safety ratings (average of 5 stars) he again starts to turn I am just being arguementative. Finally, his "safety" problem turns to "it can't accelerate; I don't want to be a car that can't accelerate into traffic nor not be able to reach highway speeds." Before being able to respond, the rest of my team (whom all have ridden and some driven the leaf), come to defense of the wonderful acceleration, etc. This person still refuses to believe it can accelerate and refuses to even ride in it (saying its unsafe).

Unfortunately - you will meet some people like this. No way and no how you will ever change their mind. Its hard to change their mind when they refuse to step into the vehicle or even look at it.

 

[DaveEV]

But my boss's boss is one of those that will never be persuaded.

He needs a ride in a Model S...

 

[Nubo]

Finally, his "safety" problem turns to "it can't accelerate; I don't want to be a car that can't accelerate into traffic nor not be able to reach highway speeds." Before being able to respond, the rest of my team (whom all have ridden and some driven the leaf), come to defense of the wonderful acceleration, etc. This person still refuses to believe it can accelerate.

Sounds like an opportunity for a friendly wager to me. Put up, or shut up, Mr. Boss man.

 

[smkettner]

So what does the boss man drive?

 

[theaveng]

"'what are you doing? isnt that un-american to buy a forigen car and not buy gas (sarcasim)?' Some people have also expressed how unfair they think it is that I get a 7500 tax credit to 'subsidize my car' and since I am not buying gas that I am not paying my fair share in taxes for the roads.

Well they are correct on all three counts. I heard the same stuff when I bought my Honda hybrid car back in 2002 (that I shouldn't buy foreign, shouldn't get a tax credit, etc). Eventually most of these things will cure themselves because your neighbors' subsidy* for your car will phase-out. Also politicians are already talking about charging EVs an extra tax to make-up for the gas tax not being paid. It's self-correcting.

*
*Technically it's the Federal Reserve. They add a couple zeroes to Congress' digital account, and the magic money flows to send you that $7000 EV subsidy (and the dollar loses purchasing power). I doubt your neighbors would understand though. Few Americans do, whether they are republican or democrat.

 

[theaveng]

The 1st amendment forbids Congress from limiting free speech (even a death threat is not illegal, ruled the Supreme Court in the 60s). The 2nd amendment forbids Congress from limiting free ownership of guns too. That's all I have to say on that.

Priuses and Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive hybrids and others w/similar design (e.g. Ford hybrids) have no alternator, no starter and the motors/generators are integrated into the transaxle (power split device).

The alternator & starter are essentially electric motors. The Prius replaced them with.... electric motors (two). So no simplication there. ----- The transaxle is a planetary gear set just like you find in any automatic car. So no simplication there either. ----- Then they added a battery plus DC/DC charger, which is located in the backseat. A standard gasoline car has no electronics located in its backseat. So overall: Yes the Prius is slightly more complicated with extra equipment.

 

[thehelix112]

I work in a fairly liberal office - mostly due to the type of work (transporation planning and air quality conformity) - this usually lends itself to people looking at the leaf admirably. But my boss's boss is one of those that will never be persuaded. Besides cracking the random jive (hey, it rained today, I guess you didn't take your electric car to work...), he outright refuses to accept the car as anything "normal." He refuses to ride the car if we go to lunch - completely refuses. He at first cited it was too small and you couldn't any more than 2 because it was a tiny car. When I try to rebuff saying its the same size, if not larger than the prius we were taking (all the while my car is parked in the isle across from the prius so he can see it), he just scoffs saying I am argumentative.

Then, I guess lossing that battle he says we can't drive in anything that is "unsafe." I try to explain that the car has exceptional crash safety ratings (average of 5 stars) he again starts to turn I am just being arguementative. Finally, his "safety" problem turns to "it can't accelerate; I don't want to be a car that can't accelerate into traffic nor not be able to reach highway speeds." Before being able to respond, the rest of my team (whom all have ridden and some driven the leaf), come to defense of the wonderful acceleration, etc. This person still refuses to believe it can accelerate and refuses to even ride in it (saying its unsafe).

Unfortunately - you will meet some people like this. No way and no how you will ever change their mind. Its hard to change their mind when they refuse to step into the vehicle or even look at it.

I hope he lives long enough to see the number of EVs on the road go above 50%.

 

[apvbguy]

. But my boss's boss is one of those that will never be persuaded.

so why do you bother trying to enlighten him? let him get his jollies at your expense and just keep it to yourself how big of an Ahole he is.

 

[BraveLittleToaster]

This person still refuses to believe it can accelerate and refuses to even ride in it (saying its unsafe).

Unfortunately - you will meet some people like this. No way and no how you will ever change their mind. Its hard to change their mind when they refuse to step into the vehicle or even look at it.

And the dude drives a Prius? Tell him you'll race him to lunch. Loser pays.

More than likely though, he's simply old enough to think of this every time he hears the term "electric car":