charging on generator

[TonyWilliams]

Would this work to link two generators together to build a 240v outlet? http://www.quick220.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the Honda eu2000i are non-GFI

No.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

Would this work to link two generators together to build a 240v outlet? http://www.quick220.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the Honda eu2000i are non-GFI

No.

To elaborate: this would work only if the two generators could somehow be made to run at exactly the same speed and be locked in phase (actually, 180 out of phase). With your typical generators, this is impossible without extensive modifications. Much better off to get a 240V generator.

 

[jpokoraw1]

What if an individual purchased engineer's range extender... but rather than connecting it to AC line, you charged the "extender" with a generator?

 

[JeffL]

I bought a small generator for charging the Leaf. I use a charger from a Dutch company that allows me to set the charge rate to 6,9,12 or 15A (from 230volt supply). http://www.ratio.nl/en/catalog/articlegroup/4717/home-chargers-mode-2

The generator needed neutral and ground joining to run the Leaf charger, but I checked with the manufacturer and this is OK with this model, and is quite usual in the UK (TNE rather than PME for those who care) when using generators. Works fine from the supplied charger, but just manages to charge at the 15A( 15.46A at 233 volt) setting when the generator has warmed up.

http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/hyundai-hy3000Si.htm

Fuel economy is very poor, but can help to get that few miles to a public charge point.

Jeff

 

[brettcgb]

The wall (Grid-Powered) outlets usually have pretty good sine wave waveshapes, and only infrequent spikes.

A "modified sinewave" inverter (or generator) actually outputs a 2-step square wave, with the waveshape looking like a 2-layer wedding cake up, and the same (but inverted) down. So, it essentially has 8 substantial "spikes" each cycle, or 480 "spikes" per second.

Some electronics do NOT like that type of input, while some other devices do not care.

So, the "modified sine-wave" is NOT a sine-wave, but just advertising, similar to a "Range Extended EV".

Modified sine wave inverters = power pulse generators. These inverters output +170V for a time, 0V for a time, -170V for a time (same time as +170V), then 0V again. This repeats at 60Hz (or 50Hz, depending on your country).

Why 170V? This is the peak voltage that your 120V sine wave outlet actually reaches (120V * sqrt(2) = 169.V ). The 170V pulses are long enough to make the RMS value of the waveform work out to 120V. (RMS = Root Mean Square, something like an average value.)

 

[QueenBee]

The generator needed neutral and ground joining to run the Leaf charger, but I checked with the manufacturer and this is OK with this model, and is quite usual in the UK (TNE rather than PME for those who care) when using generators.

Just to clarify that I think Ingineer has made it clear that this bonding between neutral and ground should be done with a 1/2 watt 100k ohm resistor and a second one from the hot leg to ground.

 

[8bits]

The generator needed neutral and ground joining to run the Leaf charger, but I checked with the manufacturer and this is OK with this model, and is quite usual in the UK (TNE rather than PME for those who care) when using generators.

Just to clarify that I think Ingineer has made it clear that this bonding between neutral and ground should be done with a 1/2 watt 100k ohm resistor and a second one from the hot leg to ground.

Can someone please tell me what is supposed that two 100K resistors do? how do they "trick" the EVSE?

I am asking this because my Smart electric car EVSE doesn't work on my garage (but works on others) and electrician thinks it is because on some earth bad resistance value. I am in Europe, using 230V.

Does anyone knows a way to "trick" the EVSEs?

Thank you.

 

[smkettner]

^^^^ As far as I know your neutral and ground should be bonded (connected) at the main breaker panel.

Should not be relying on any "earth" ground to connect ground and neutral.

The resistor is to trick the evse on a generator without the neutral/ground bond as it has a floating ground. Should not apply at home.

 

[QueenBee]

^^^^ As far as I know your neutral and ground should be bonded (connected) at the main breaker panel.

Should not be relying on any "earth" ground to connect ground and neutral.

The resistor is to trick the evse on a generator without the neutral/ground bond as it has a floating ground. Should not apply at home.

From what I read in Portugual their ground isn't floating but it is connected to the buildings grounding electrodes only. They don't bond ground and neutral at the panel like we do in the US. I presume this is the issue.

 

[8bits]

From what I read in Portugual their ground isn't floating but it is connected to the buildings grounding electrodes only. They don't bond ground and neutral at the panel like we do in the US. I presume this is the issue.

Hmmm, I wounder how did you found I am from Portugal ;-)

Your are correct, ground isn't floating but it is connected to the buildings grounding electrodes only, here in Portugal.

 

[QueenBee]

From what I read in Portugual their ground isn't floating but it is connected to the buildings grounding electrodes only. They don't bond ground and neutral at the panel like we do in the US. I presume this is the issue.

Hmmm, I wounder how did you found I am from Portugal ;-)

Your are correct, ground isn't floating but it is connected to the buildings grounding electrodes only, here in Portugal.

In the other post you linked to the forum and I saw the cities of the other posters and made a guess

So are all your circuit breakers RCD?

 

[smkettner]

If you do use the resistor go up to 1w or 2w for the higher voltage.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, lots of countries, and most of the EU, are on "isolated" ground (Earth).

If you have one of our upgraded 2013 units, we now have a programmable isolated ground function that allows the EVSE to work properly on these systems.

-Phil

 

[xado1]

http://www.goingelectric.de/forum/nissan-leaf/laden-mit-inverter-generator-t3107.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[aatheus]

I shall have to try this on my generator. I have one of Ingineer's excellent upgraded 2012 Leaf EVSEs. I have a Sportsman 7000w 240v generator. If I am charging on 240v, would it be safer to tie both of the hots and the neutral to ground (in the L14-20 plug) to ground via three 100k resistors? Or is a single 100kOhm resistor from neutral to ground safer/safe enough? I am curious to hear Ingineer's thoughts on this.

Also, how are generators like this typically wired in regard to their "phases"? My generator has two 15 amp 120v sockets, plus a L14-20P socket for 120v+240v @ 20A. Is 120v #1's hot on one "phase" and 120v #2's hot is on the other "phase"? I am concerned that I would have to make up two dummy plugs to resistor tie both 120v plugs, if I want to use 240v safely.

Thanks!

 

[Ingineer]

If you have a 240v capable generator and you intend on charging @ 240v, then barring a proper bonded ground with ground rod, a 100k resistor from neutral to ground should suffice.

You generator is single phase, so there is only one phase center-tapped to provide 240/120v. Most of these small generators have a switch to select from 120v or 240v/120v. That usually re-arranges the windings to be in parallel rather than series, so if you are having only 120v loads, you get double the current and no need to balance.

-Phil

 

[aatheus]

Thanks Phil.

As I said, the connection is a L14-20 outlet. So it is 120+240 on the same plug. My generator does not have a 120/240v switch. It only has circuit breakers for the 120v outlets and one for the L14-20.

I shall try the neutral->ground bond through 100k resistance on the L14-20 plug.

 

[theleafer]

So I am looking at doing something similar with mobile charging. I am experimenting with a roof top solar array see my thread here http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15999. and I am running into the same issue with the ground not being detected even though the inverter does technically have a ground. Does anybody know if using the NEMA 5-15P mod will safely work on a modified sine wave inverter? The Pure Sine would be nice to have but the price differential is to much to justify for my experiment.

 

[smkettner]

The resistor should work fine on MSW inverter to spoof the neutral/ground bond.

 

[theleafer]

The resistor should work fine on MSW inverter to spoof the neutral/ground bond.

Ok, I will give it a go.

Have any of you generator people tried running DC through the QC port at a lower current? Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread but it never appeared to be experimented with.