Charging Station etiquette? Volt owners hogging the juice!!

[GIBBER]

One of the typical abuses by Volt owners occurs at a Nissan dealer here in SoCal which is near a Costco.
The Volt owners plug-in and then walk off to Costco to do their shopping leaving their cars unattended.
On many occasions, the Volt owners return to find Leaf owners waiting for a parking space to charge.

There is a sign at TBWA HQ (Nissan's ad company) in Marina Del Rey Ca. that states "Charging priority is given to LEAFs" and provides a name/number to contact should an offending vehicle ignore it. I expect to see more signage like this one at dealers (not just Nissan dealers) in the near future.

 

[alcalira]

OF COURSE you can unplug a car that's done charging at a public station! Anyone who doesn't want to be unplugged should not use public charging.

All public charging stations should be accessible from more than one parking spot so that cars can share a single charger without the necessity for a car to be moved when it is done charging.

I don't think the Volt (and other PHEVs) will be around for long--it's an interim solution at best. They're not very good electric cars (Volt: 35 mile range; only 4 seats; Prius: 11 mile range) and the Volt is not a very good gas car (25 mpg). So BEV drivers take solace in knowing that eventually you won't have to "share" public charging with cars that don't absolutely HAVE to be charged.

EVERYONE: At high-turnover public charging stations, if you can, please move your car once you have the juice you need. And I think we are going to see an explosion of new public charging infrastructure over the coming few years which will help alleviate some of these issues.

 

[gasmiser1]

Note: Volt gets 45-55 mpg gas on trips up to 250-300 miles.

I don't ever get lower than 42mpg on longer trips.
(Speeds 60-65mph)

 

[mwalsh]

Note: Volt gets 45-55 mpg gas on trips up to 250-300 miles.

I don't ever get lower than 42mpg on longer trips.
(Speeds 60-65mph)

We get around 40, driving like we just don't care.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Anyone park at the 5th and Mission garage in SF on the lower level? There is a guy there that commutes from Marin in a white Fiat 500e and pretty much parks there in a spot all day every day. Nice to have a private parking spot :roll: Of course that commute does not even require charging.

 

[volty]

Regarding the Volt "abusing" the charging spot at the Nissan dealership, is the offense here that it is at a Nissan dealership? Is it a public spot? Because otherwise, it seems like they are just charging up while parking their car to go shopping, like anyone else. Unless you think the offense is that they don't "need" to charge up.

The comment on the Volt not being a good electric car is silly. I routinely do my 80-mile roundtrip commute on 100% electric (charging at work) and easily get 40-50mpg when in hybrid mode (you never need to be in 'gas' only mode -- i.e. you can always use the regenerative braking, etc. to get much better mpg than a standard ICE car). I'm not trying to troll the Leaf boards here - but for me, having the range extending gas option is a better fit for my driving needs, while allowing me to drive electric the majority of the time -- so I think my Volt is a fantastic car. If the 100% EV Leaf works for your driving needs, that's awesome too!

Maybe the underlying issue here is that some people think that public charging should be for BEVs only. That's a policy debate I won't try to answer now. But I'm glad to see there are plenty of people who believe "first come first served" is applicable to public charging, whether or not it's a Volt at the plug.

 

[GIBBER]

Anyone park at the 5th and Mission garage in SF on the lower level? There is a guy there that commutes from Marin in a white Fiat 500e and pretty much parks there in a spot all day every day. Nice to have a private parking spot :roll: Of course that commute does not even require charging.

Sounds like a polite note needs to be left on his car. That failing to help, I'm the type who will gladly wake up an hour early every day just to beat him to the spot so I can give him a taste of his own.

 

[GIBBER]

Regarding the Volt "abusing" the charging spot at the Nissan dealership, is the offense here that it is at a Nissan dealership? Is it a public spot? Because otherwise, it seems like they are just charging up while parking their car to go shopping, like anyone else. Unless you think the offense is that they don't "need" to charge up.

I have an issue because it is at a Dealership. It is NOT a general public spot like you might find at a shopping center. EV owners use the dealer network to stop and charge as needed to make it home, to have a vehicle left there (regardless of make) unattended while the owner grocery shops at a neighboring store should not be tolerated.

 

[mwalsh]

Maybe the underlying issue here is that some people think that public charging should be for BEVs only.

I'm a Volt owner who believes that. I'm not going to sit on a charging station while a BEV owner is fretting how he's going to get to his destination. And it bothers me that there are even people out there who would. But then maybe my perspective is clouded by having been there and done that. :x

 

[KeiJidosha]

Anyone park at the 5th and Mission garage in SF on the lower level? There is a guy there that commutes from Marin in a white Fiat 500e and pretty much parks there in a spot all day every day. Nice to have a private parking spot :roll: Of course that commute does not even require charging.

He is certainly paying for the privilege at $3.50/hr to park there. 80ish mile round trip would require 7+ hour charge on 3.3kW LEAF, though 500e should be done in 4. No power at home? More likely that congestion is the price of "Free" charging.

 

[Graffi]

Regarding the Volt "abusing" the charging spot at the Nissan dealership, is the offense here that it is at a Nissan dealership? Is it a public spot? Because otherwise, it seems like they are just charging up while parking their car to go shopping, like anyone else. Unless you think the offense is that they don't "need" to charge up.

I have an issue because it is at a Dealership. It is NOT a general public spot like you might find at a shopping center. EV owners use the dealer network to stop and charge as needed to make it home, to have a vehicle left there (regardless of make) unattended while the owner grocery shops at a neighboring store should not be tolerated.

+1

No matter what car is plugged in, the driver should know how long the charge will take and plan to make room for the next car to charge at that time. Yes, first come, first serve, but then time for the next customer.

It is like being parked at a parking meter, when your paid for time is up and you do not move your car you get a ticket.

 

[davewill]

... No matter what car is plugged in, the driver should know how long the charge will take and plan to make room for the next car to charge at that time. Yes, first come, first serve, but then time for the next customer.

It is like being parked at a parking meter, when your paid for time is up and you do not move your car you get a ticket.

Not really. The parking meter has a city ordinance making it a ticketable offense to overstay. Not so with the EVSE. Anyway, as has been pointed out, there are many circumstances that would delay someone from coming out and moving their car. Going to the movies/concert/play, taking a train/plane/bus trip, or simply a too long walk to/from the venue they are visiting.

I'm certainly not going to abandon my dinner to come out and move the car just because it's happened to finish while I was eating.

 

[smkettner]

I would far prefer to see three 10 amp 240v charging stations over one 30 amp station. This is especially important when there is no fee.

I agree the dealer should restrict charging during business hours for those doing business at the dealer or for an EV in need to get to the next destination. That might mean no Costco PHEVs during normal business hours of maybe 10a to 6p. Or leave the keys so the vehicle can be moved. But I don't think the dealer wants to get into the free valet business.

 

[DaveEV]

I would far prefer to see three 10 amp 240v charging stations over one 30 amp station. This is especially important when there is no fee.

The more plugs the better. Something like a 3-way Hydra would be awesome. Chargepoint's CT4000 is a step in the right direction.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Anyone park at the 5th and Mission garage in SF on the lower level? There is a guy there that commutes from Marin in a white Fiat 500e and pretty much parks there in a spot all day every day. Nice to have a private parking spot :roll: Of course that commute does not even require charging.

He is certainly paying for the privilege at $3.50/hr to park there. 80ish mile round trip would require 7+ hour charge on 3.3kW LEAF, though 500e should be done in 4. No power at home? More likely that congestion is the price of "Free" charging.

He commutes less than 35 RT. I suppose if 10 people all pay to park every day then they have exclusive use of the charge stations all year 5 days a week. I see PIPs do the same thing, nothing like taking a spot all day for a 30 min charge.

 

[cwerdna]

The comment on the Volt not being a good electric car is silly. I routinely do my 80-mile roundtrip commute on 100% electric (charging at work) and easily get 40-50mpg when in hybrid mode (you never need to be in 'gas' only mode -- i.e. you can always use the regenerative braking, etc. to get much better mpg than a standard ICE car).

The reason why people say that is because the Volt's neither an efficient EV nor an efficient hybrid. And, it "requires" premium gas while achieving 37 mpg combined on the EPA test in a 4-seater compact car (per EPA size classification) vs. (cheaper) 50 mpg combined mid-sized hybrids. And, it's got a too slow 3.3 kW OBC vs. virtually all currently sold BEVs. (I see the Volts at my work pulling ~3.1 kW at 208 volts. vs. ~3.7 kW that the '11 and '12 Leafs pull @ 208 volts.)

That said, yes, I can see GM's value proposition and if one's trips are short enough, it can function almost entirely like a BEV.

 

[cwerdna]

I believe that newby Volt owners and EV owners need an education about charging etiquette. But only law enforcement with $ tickets/tow will fix the hogging of EV charging stations.

I'd amend your statement to include ALL newbie (and maybe some not-so-new) PHEV and EV owners. Hogging and lack of charging etiquette isn't limited to Volt owners.

As I mentioned a few months ago on this thread, as a Volt driver, I just want to make sure that there are no Leaf-Volt misunderstandings due to the fact that our charging indicator lights are the opposite of each other. In other words, Volts have a solid green light *during* charging, and then a slow blinking light after getting a full charge. So as for 'Volt owners hogging space when they already have a full charge', I hope that is based on information from the charging station, and not on a misinterpretation of the solid green light which actually indicates active charging.

Yep. If one doesn't have all the indicators for all the EVs and PHEVs memorized and wishes to use shared charging, one should keep a printout of the guides at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=307779#p307779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=307888#p307888" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in their car, at all times.

OF COURSE you can unplug a car that's done charging at a public station! Anyone who doesn't want to be unplugged should not use public charging.

Unless that car has set their charging lock to LOCK... :roll: I ran into last month and posted a PSA at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15827" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[GIBBER]

... No matter what car is plugged in, the driver should know how long the charge will take and plan to make room for the next car to charge at that time. Yes, first come, first serve, but then time for the next customer.

It is like being parked at a parking meter, when your paid for time is up and you do not move your car you get a ticket.

Not really. The parking meter has a city ordinance making it a ticketable offense to overstay. Not so with the EVSE. Anyway, as has been pointed out, there are many circumstances that would delay someone from coming out and moving their car. Going to the movies/concert/play, taking a train/plane/bus trip, or simply a too long walk to/from the venue they are visiting.

I'm certainly not going to abandon my dinner to come out and move the car just because it's happened to finish while I was eating.

You missed the point, this is NOT a public charging station.

 

[davewill]

You missed the point, this is NOT a public charging station.

It's not? Do you own it? If not, how do you expect to use it? It belongs to someone else, and they set the rules about it's use, not us. If the owner doesn't want Volts to use it, or wants to set time limits, I assume they will put up a sign or otherwise communicate that. Then people will decide whether to use it in accordance with those rules or not use it.

 

[GIBBER]

You missed the point, this is NOT a public charging station.

It's not? Do you own it? If not, how do you expect to use it? It belongs to someone else, and they set the rules about it's use, not us. If the owner doesn't want Volts to use it, or wants to set time limits, I assume they will put up a sign or otherwise communicate that. Then people will decide whether to use it in accordance with those rules or not use it.

I was raised to consider how my actions might effect others. You appear to be one who does not care how your actions might effect others until there is posted signage instructing you to do so.