Charging that Electric Car Could Cost More Than Tank of Gas

[scottf200]

http://www.bnet.com/blog/electric-cars/charging-that-electric-car-could-cost-more-than-a-tank-of-gas/4908

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But the prices cited by Walgreens charging partners, which are putting in the company chargers at their own expense, are much higher than that. Tim Mason, the president and co-founder of 350Green, told me he expects to charge drive-up consumers up to $4 for a 90-minute charging session in a Walgreens parking lot. Michael Farkas, who heads the Car Charging Group and is also a Walgreens partner, agrees with the $3 to $4 session pricing. “It’s somewhere around there,” he told me.

Here’s the problem: You can’t fully charge an EV from a 240-volt charger in 90 minutes. So, consumers who own cars like the Nissan Leaf or Chevrolet Volt will be buying only about 20 miles of range, and that means 20-cent miles — likely more expensive than the gasoline equivalent.

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Not an issue for me as I don't think I'll ever use/need a pay-to-charge type charger.

 

[smkettner]

When a gas station owner only makes a few pennies per dollar and the EV charging stations need to make 80% as profit..... good luck as few will buy. And don't say it is to pay for the equipment.... can anyone fathom the initial cost and recurring maintenance on gasoline equipment? And it is all boot because we were coming to the store to spend money already. Hopefully we can swipe a loyalty card for a discount.

Someone that charges $4 for 90 minutes will lose all my business not just the EV charging profits. :x

 

[JohnOver]

Someone that charges $4 for 90 minutes will lose all my business not just the EV charging profits.

AMEN Brother! Let's keep a list of those who charge too much so we can vote without wallets.

 

[LEAFfan]

Someone that charges $4 for 90 minutes will lose all my business not just the EV charging profits. :x

+1!

 

[TonyWilliams]

$4 for a 90-minute charging session in a Walgreens parking lot.

For the relatively few times I might need/want it, I'd happily pay that for the equipment being there and the electrons.

For the quick charge, I'd pay a premium for the time saved, maybe $5-$10.

 

[Herm]

It beats paying for a tow truck.. once the Nssan free roadside service plan expires. A Focus BEV could pump in 20kwh in those 90 minutes, perhaps its an issue with the Leaf

 

[astralfish]

Someone that charges $4 for 90 minutes will lose all my business not just the EV charging profits. :x

+1!

+2

 

[DarkStar]

...and after a few years they'll be scratching their heads wondering why nobody is using it, so they'll drop the price to about $0.25 for 30 minutes. That's probably the most time I would need at Walgreens anyhow.

 

[gbarry42]

We take you now, to Costco, where they looked at their own situation, and said "Screw it! Yank 'em out!" So the businesses may not want to play at all.

It's also worth mentioning again, that the power company had a monopoly on selling electricity, but that has been waived, for a time anyway, to allow businesses to do public installations of EVSE's. I think they're expected to play fairly. I think if there's a lot of money changing hands, the utility will muscle their way back into the game.

 

[LKK]

Most businesses install chargers to bring folks in. The few cents it cost to recharge is more than offset through sales. To try to make money on charging is, in my opinion, a stupid business model. I can see a problem if someone works in the area and occupies the space for 8 or 9 hours and gets a free charge. This could be resolved with a sign saying the EV charger is offered as a convenience to Walgreen shoppers, if your not shopping your car will be towed. I would recommend that everyone send Walgreens an email saying your are an EV owner who does not appreciate being ripped off and therefore will in the future avoid doing any business with them.

 

[mxp]

Commercial charging endeavours should really consider the typical EV user's charging requirements. Most if not all EV users will have L2 at home.

Any form of serious monetization should be on L3 infrastructure. That would be more compelling.

$4 for a Chademo L3 QC charge is what I will pay. $4 for a couple of hours of L2 charging at a shopping area? Forget it if I have enough juice to get home. Maybe, if I want to go elsewhere and need an extra 15- 20 miles cushion.

The only benefit I can see to charging $ for L2 is there will be proper re-inforcement of the EV parking slots since the slots will be for pay charging customers.

 

[ttweed]

Any form of serious monetization should be on L3 infrastructure. That would be more compelling.

I agree. I would not pay large $$ for L2 charging anywhere.

TT

 

[davewill]

Any form of serious monetization should be on L3 infrastructure. That would be more compelling.

I agree. I would not pay large $$ for L2 charging anywhere.

Especially with the anemic charger in the LEAF. Since most of the rate schemes seem to charge by time spent charging, LEAFs only get half the charge for their money.

 

[rpmdk]

The more I drive the car and read the posts of people's charging adventures, I hung out downtown for a few hours while I charged (there's a lot to do!), I limped to Nissan such and such and chatted with the sales rep while I charged (he's a great guy and Nissan such and such is a fine establishment!), it was a nail biter getting home, but I made it with a mile or two to spare - the more I want a bigger and better battery. I'm coming to believe a charging infrastructure will certainly be helpful, but really if you could leave the house knowing you have 200 miles - then most of our issues are resolved.

There will be the times when you want to go further, and hopefully the infrastructure will be there, but I think the batteries will improve faster than the infrastructure.

 

[Herm]

You will have that option in the future, you just need to decide how much you want to pay for that extra range.

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm coming to believe a charging infrastructure will certainly be helpful, but really if you could leave the house knowing you have 200 miles - then most of our issues are resolved.

+1

The smallest Tesla S battery pack option will give you 160 miles of range. At a minimum, the Leaf should offer a 32kWh battery option.

 

[EricH]

Any form of serious monetization should be on L3 infrastructure. That would be more compelling.

I agree. I would not pay large $$ for L2 charging anywhere.

TT

I completely agree... in the time required to browse in a Walgreen's to get more than one bar on L2, I would probably lose my mind (I'm not much of a 'shopper').

This seems to break into two very discrete markets/needs:

1. I need to stop along my route for max charge/min time, and will happily pay (L3 for $$)
2. I am willing to stop/dawdle, or choose one store over another, for the convenience of a bit of free charge, but would hardly ever pay (gratis L2)

Market #1 will need to be freeway-close, clearly marked, and have a trained attendant, and, ideally, a restroom and snacks; gas stations and Starbucks have been mentioned for this (or maybe a 7-Eleven in Rancho Cucamonga )

Market #2 will be businesses who are going for a competitive edge (Walgreen vs. CVS, Edwards vs. AMC, and so forth), OR businesses that want to incentivize customers to linger (South Coast Plaza, Best Buy) to get additional free charge.

If Walgreen's is trying to become the "stop of choice" among EV owners, bless them, but they should save the L3's for strategic locations (I-10/I-15, Victorville, Camarillo, Oceanside, San Juan Capistrano) where travelers will pay up to extend their range (I could have taken the Leaf from LA to Santa Barbara last weekend, with an L3 at the Camarillo outlets). Suburban L3, or L2 pay-chargers, will be deserted.

Maybe these first-wave EVSE installations would benefit from the type of formal market research (conducted by EV manufacturers for the most part) that has been admirably documented on this forum.

 

[planet4ever]

For L2 I agree that Walgreens is questionable. Big box stores (Costco, Frys, etc.) would be better. Even better would be shopping malls and quality restaurants. The next step up? Movie theaters and golf courses. Beyond that (sports arenas, amusement parks, airports, etc.) the benefits die out rather severely. There are too many visitors, they stay too long, and/or they come and go in waves.

Ray

 

[Mx5racer]

I would be willing to pay the $4 to have the units in place and working.
If there is money to be made, maybe more units will be in place.
If the Nissan dealers were charging maybe it would not be so difficult to find one that wants to let us charge.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i saw the price suggested and i fully expect them to go to a "club card" setup like Safeway which gives a discount on gas based on the amount of purchase made.

this protect Walgrens from people who simply park to charge without shopping at all. do so and pay the $4. shop at walgrens, scan your card then swipe it when you unplug. buy under $20. pay a buck an hour. buy over $20 pay 50 cents an hour, etc.

any other way would be incredibly stupid.