Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[mwalsh]

More pics and renderings, including chassis, pack, and motor cutaways:

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/detroit/2016/2017-chevrolet-bolt-serves-up-200-hp-266-lb-ft/

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I've stated before that counter intuitively the larger your battery the LOWER the charge rate can be for most folks.

Right. When the battery is large enough, the charger only needs to replenish your average daily usage overnight. If you drive more on Monday and less on Tuesday, you make it up on Tuesday night. So long as the battery is large enough to hold enough reserve. I too try to explain this, but have a tough time. I've actually lived this story with my 2012 Leaf charging (initially) only on L1. There are days that overnight isn't enough to recharge. But if I only travel say 25 miles the next day, I make it up the following night.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

How would losing range in a LEAF in winter compare to losing range to pack thermal management in a Bolt? Would the TM preserve more range on average than it uses to keep the pack warm?

With 60kWh, I'd only have to charge once for a whole work week in the summer, maybe every 3 days in winter.

 

[user 10599]

Looks pretty cool!

I look forward to taking it for a spin when it gets here. If it is indeed solid and isn't too expensive, that would work for me.

 

[mwalsh]

How would losing range in a LEAF in winter compare to losing range to pack thermal management in a Bolt? Would the TM preserve more range on average than it uses to keep the pack warm?

With 60kWh, I'd only have to charge once for a whole work week in the summer, maybe every 3 days in winter.

I can't speak to winter with a Bolt (nor summer for that matter, being as we don't yet know how it's thermal management works), but as a Volt owner living in a warm/hot climate I can tell you that the loss of summer range due to pack thermal management is the biggest drawback with the Volt as far as I'm concerned. You quickly learn maximizing range during the summertime means you plug-in even when you don't need to charge, so that power consumed by thermal management is offset using the grid. I haven't really researched the effect cold weather has on Volt range, but I can tell you that not only does the Volt actively and automatically cool if pack temps are above 72 degrees F, it also actively and automatically warms if pack if temps are below 25 degrees F. So I suspect there would be some range loss in winter (if one couldn't plug in, that is), even if it doesn't turn out to be as severe than in summer.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

So, best to be plugged in above 72 degrees, or below 25. I've read recently that the Bolt's TM will be an improvement on the Volt's, but how much power does it consume on the Volt? We don't get SW heat here, yet, but it gets over 72 often enough. Cooling is to preserve the pack though, and I'd sure want it when fast charging, especially if they install 100 kW QCs. It's cold that kills range here, but with 60 kWh, maybe I won't notice the loss as much.

GM is saying, late 2016, so mostly 2017 availability, and I'm seeing Tesla reassurances that the 3 is on time for 2017, and I'm guessing that Ghosn will get the LEAF2 out there too, ready or not, so should be a pretty exciting time.

 

[mwalsh]

So, best to be plugged in above 72 degrees, or below 25. I've read recently that the Bolt's TM will be an improvement on the Volt's, but how much power does it consume on the Volt? We don't get SW heat here, yet, but it gets over 72 often enough.

Pack temps though, not ambient. An important point. Supposedly the pack in a Volt is so well insulated that the rise (or fall) to ambient happens very slowly, if at all (being as the cooling/heating will kick in).

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

So, best to be plugged in above 72 degrees, or below 25. I've read recently that the Bolt's TM will be an improvement on the Volt's, but how much power does it consume on the Volt? We don't get SW heat here, yet, but it gets over 72 often enough.

Pack temps though, not ambient. An important point. Supposedly the pack in a Volt is so well insulated that the rise (or fall) to ambient happens very slowly, if at all (being as the cooling/heating will kick in).

Ah! Yeah, good point. Thanks.

 

[Zythryn]

...
GM is saying, late 2016, so mostly 2017 availability, and I'm seeing Tesla reassurances that the 3 is on time for 2017, and I'm guessing that Ghosn will get the LEAF2 out there too, ready or not, so should be a pretty exciting time.

Tesla has been stating the end of 2017.
I expect the Bolt to have a full year on the market before the Model 3 makes its appearance.
I'm personally hoping to see the next gen Leaf in early 2017.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

You're probably right. Bolt is really going to put the pressure on.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Any mention of when/if there will be a nationwide rollout? I fear they could delay a year before going nationwide. If it were just a few months, maybe I could find something to hold me over until then. Is it really not possible to further extend a LEAF lease past 3 years?

 

[TomT]

Considering the relative capacity of the Volt and Bolt packs, and that GM has stated that the Bolt pack requires considerably less TMS and that the TMS in that pack is also more efficient than in the Volt, I don't expect it to be a big issue...

I can't speak to winter with a Bolt (nor summer for that matter, being as we don't yet know how it's thermal management works), but as a Volt owner living in a warm/hot climate I can tell you that the loss of summer range due to pack thermal management is the biggest drawback with the Volt as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TomT]

Maybe one by the end of 2017 (kind of like the game Nissan and GM played in 2010) but I'll bet no real quantity until closer to the end of 2018...

Tesla has been stating the end of 2017.

 

[lorenfb]

With the entry of the first 200 mile sub-$40K BEV, many seem to have overlooked whether that entry
will be the panacea for declining BEV sales, i.e. 2015 - 117K vs 2014 - 123K (InsideEvs). Yes, many of
us early adopters consider the Bolt's entry a significant step forward for the BEV market, but will
the average automotive consumer consider its entry as that point which will change their buying
outlook, i.e. the BEV market still has it key nemesis - long charging times versus at most a 5 - 10 minute
re-fill with an ICEV besides the issue of the installation of a home charging station. Remember, the
average consumer dislikes having to make major lifestyle changes without significant benefits.

 

[LKK]

The Bolt is certainly a step forward. I don't think the folks at Nissan are willing to give up their leadership in the pure EV segment without a fight. I expect great things to come out of Nissan to fight off this challange and while these, and other, manufactures duke it out, we will be the beneficiaries. Competition is great!

 

[vwDavid]

Wouldn't the key nemesis be low oil prices and market foothold of the ICE? People will happily make those changes if there is $ in it for them.

 

[Valdemar]

The Bolt is certainly a step forward. I don't think the folks at Nissan are willing to give up their leadership in the pure EV segment without a fight. I expect great things to come out of Nissan to fight off this challange and while these, and other, manufactures duke it out, we will be the beneficiaries. Competition is great!

And the reward would be additional 200-300 units per month they can move for a total of less than 1500? I don't exactly see a business plan here.

 

[lorenfb]

Wouldn't the key nemesis be low oil prices and market foothold of the ICE? People will happily make those changes if there is $ in it for them.

Yes, that's a factor that consumers weigh against problematic BEVs issues, but it's not an overwhelming one.
Consider what europeans pay for fuel versus the U.S. (+2X) and high fuel prices haven't overcome key BEV
issues there.

 

[GRA]

Wouldn't the key nemesis be low oil prices and market foothold of the ICE? People will happily make those changes if there is $ in it for them.

Yes, that's a factor that consumers weigh against problematic BEVs issues, but it's not an overwhelming one.
Consider what europeans pay for fuel versus the U.S. (+2X) and high fuel prices haven't overcome key BEV
issues there.

They also pay higher electricity prices on average, and drive shorter distances than Americans do. Here at least, the price of gas remains key to PEV market share.

 

[lorenfb]

Wouldn't the key nemesis be low oil prices and market foothold of the ICE? People will happily make those changes if there is $ in it for them.

Yes, that's a factor that consumers weigh against problematic BEVs issues, but it's not an overwhelming one.
Consider what europeans pay for fuel versus the U.S. (+2X) and high fuel prices haven't overcome key BEV
issues there.

They also pay higher electricity prices on average, and drive shorter distances than Americans do. Here at least, the price of gas remains key to PEV market share.

The higher electricity prices are not that significant relative to the much higher fuel costs premium being paid.
Furthermore, the shorter driving distances should further facilitate present sub-200 mile BEV acceptance,
which has not been the case in Europe versus the U.S. Have you possibly forgotten some of your FCEVs
supporting arguments/issues over BEVs on the FCEV thread? One tends to discount the consumer's
perceived values of a BEV versus an ICEV which is not always quantifiable. Yes, the price of gas is factor but
not the dominant one!

Bottom Line: Gas prices have more of an effect on whether consumers transition to small or large ICEVs
than transition to BEVs.