Chevrolet Spark EV

[smkettner]

I will be more curious if the Spark outsells the Volt.

 

[hodad66]

happy to see all entries to the dance..... it's been way too long!

 

[scottf200]

I can smell the collective fear of the Leaf community, relax guys.. its a limited release only.
I must admit that A123 batteries and active cooling is very impressive, hopefully they will match the Leafs cost.

It appears to be smaller than a LEAF so I would not think it is a direct competitor. Of course it may be if the LEAF buyers are buying them because they are the only game in town.

The official GM media post.
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/1012_SparkEV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Feedback from participants in Chevrolet’s electric vehicle demonstration fleets in Shanghai (Sail EV), Korea (Cruze EV) and India (Beat EV) are being incorporated into the Spark EV.

It doesn't really sound like this is a new EV for GM but extensions to others they have experience in (see above). Hard to find a common name that can be used world wide. I've seen products renamed at work because what seems good in one geography is very misinterpreted in others due to subtle meanings or connotations.

Isn't it true that the USA market is tiny by comparison to China and India? That means sales in the USA for all EVs (LEAF, Spark, FocusEV, etc) are not that significant on scale.

 

[mwalsh]

I can smell the collective fear of the Leaf community, relax guys.. its a limited release only.
I must admit that A123 batteries and active cooling is very impressive, hopefully they will match the Leafs cost.

It appears to be smaller than a LEAF so I would not think it is a direct competitor. Of course it may be if the LEAF buyers are buying them because they are the only game in town.

The official GM media post.
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/1012_SparkEV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Feedback from participants in Chevrolet’s electric vehicle demonstration fleets in Shanghai (Sail EV), Korea (Cruze EV) and India (Beat EV) are being incorporated into the Spark EV.

It doesn't really sound like this is a new EV for GM but extensions to others they have experience in (see above). Hard to find a common name that can be used world wide. I've seen products renamed at work because what seems good in one geography is very misinterpreted in others due to subtle meanings or connotations.

Isn't it true that the USA market is tiny by comparison to China and India? That means sales in the USA for all EVs (LEAF, Spark, FocusEV, etc) are not that significant on scale.

I would think that the EV version of the Cruze would be a better fit for American audiences. But who knows.

 

[LEAFfan]

A rising tide raises all boats.

Not the ones that have holes in them.

 

[LEAFfan]

I used 0.17 gallons of gas yesterday 11Oct2011 to go 57.2 miles (temp were modest). Went 48.6 miles on the battery then 8.6 miles on the gas_generator.

I use ZERO gasoline and drive completely emissions-free. Two tenths of gasoline is .2 too much AFAIC. I think it's interesting how you keep referring to your premium-recommended gasoline engine as a 'generator'. Why don't you call it what it is? A generator can't drive the wheels. So you think most people are going to drive less than 70mph on the freeways with their Volt? What do you think happens when they reach 70mph? Their gas engine will begin to drive the wheels. I used to drive the freeways/Interstates all the time, and rarely did I see a car going less than 70mph. Most were going 75 to 85.

 

[TRONZ]

The Spark measurements look like it will be competing with the iMiev. Do people think GM will give it a similar range and QC port to the Mitsu? Is this a chance for GM to debut the SAE plug standard (even as an option)? I suspect alot of things but will give GM the benefit of the doubt until production numbers, specs and price are released. IMHO, it is an attractive design and will call this good news and a step in right direction for GM. Really hoping they don't screw this second chance up.

 

[scottf200]

From another thread I posted in earlier:
J1772 hybrid L3 - preparation

From the big picture here:
http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/n...ner/par/download_0/file.res/Spark_Cutaway.jpg

...doesn't it look like there is a lower flap for the J1772 hybrid L3 vs J1772 L2 ?!?

J1772 hybrid L3:

 

[TRONZ]

Ooohh. Very interesting! Looking closely, that is definitely an SAE style plug shape... but without the lower pins. If produced it could definitely stimulate the QC market and public awareness of this capability. To borrow a "Scotty", this tide WOULD raise all boats.

 

[davewill]

...doesn't it look like there is a lower flap for the J1772 hybrid L3 vs J1772 L2 ?!?

Yep, it certainly does. Damn. I was hoping that the SAE connector would stay vaporware for a lot longer.

 

[stephent]

I use ZERO gasoline and drive completely emissions-free. Two tenths of gasoline is .2 too much AFAIC.

I think you are not representative of the vast majority of Leaf users. Almost all have a 2nd car and are using gasoline at least occasionally. Even those without a 2nd car may rent a car for long trips and use gas then. I don't see this as substantially different than a Volt driver who's typical daily driving is all electric.

I think it's interesting how you keep referring to your premium-recommended gasoline engine as a 'generator'. Why don't you call it what it is? A generator can't drive the wheels. So you think most people are going to drive less than 70mph on the freeways with their Volt? What do you think happens when they reach 70mph? Their gas engine will begin to drive the wheels. I used to drive the freeways/Interstates all the time, and rarely did I see a car going less than 70mph. Most were going 75 to 85.

1. As pointed out repeatedly in the main Volt thread, the gas engine does *NOT* start up due to high speed, when there is still charge remaining. Somehow several people on this forum have this misconception and repeat it over and over. The Volt remains pure EV up to its top speed of 100-101 mph, until its battery is depleted. So when people drive 70 mph in the Volt, nothing happens, it's still EV. The 2nd electric motor may have joined in to reduce RPM on the main traction motor, and it probably did so below 70 mph. There's nothing special about 70mph on the Volt, that was misreported in the press, it's just an example speed where it's very likely that the 2nd motor is in play, the computer brings it in at lower speeds depending on power/torque demands.

2. It is functioning primarily as a generator, and it's appropriate to call it such. The gas engine is not directly connected to the wheels, it is connected to an electric motor/generator. Under certain conditions, higher speeds *after the battery is depleted*, the *electric motor/generator* helps drive the wheels, in addition to the main traction motor. It's still generating electricity and driving the traction motor for most of the power. The engine provides indirect mechanical torque through the generator. This is all a silly semantic argument anyway, who really cares what it's called?

 

[adric22]

I use ZERO gasoline and drive completely emissions-free. Two tenths of gasoline is .2 too much AFAIC. I think it's interesting how you keep referring to your premium-recommended gasoline engine as a 'generator'. Why don't you call it what it is? A generator can't drive the wheels. So you think most people are going to drive less than 70mph on the freeways with their Volt? What do you think happens when they reach 70mph? Their gas engine will begin to drive the wheels. I used to drive the freeways/Interstates all the time, and rarely did I see a car going less than 70mph. Most were going 75 to 85.

You guys are ridiculous. I always saw it that people who drive a Leaf or a Volt are on the same team. Why all the bickering? You'd think somebody jumped on here and said they driver a Hummer and want to crush your Leaf with it. I post things every now and then on the Volt forum and I've had people insult me over there for driving a Leaf. It boggles the mind, it does. I considered buying a Volt. In the end the price and styling of the Leaf is what swayed me that direction. Certainly nothing to do with the Volt having a gasoline engine inside of it.

 

[evnow]

I think it is somewhat debatable whether regulation mandated EVs are useful in the longrun - esp. when it is needed only in one state (even if that happens to be the big state).

But it is important to recognize which ones are serious efforts and which ones aren't.

Sometime a CARB play like Mini-E can become quite effective in consincing a large # of people how practicle EVs are. it can also lead to real large scale investment and marketing of EVs - like i3 from BMW.

If not anything else, Spark EV will stop the anti-EV FUD from GM. That is always a good thing.

 

[mwalsh]

Yep, it certainly does. Damn. I was hoping that the SAE connector would stay vaporware for a lot longer.

You mean like forever? :lol: The forces of right have still got two years (at the very least) to flood the infrastructure with CHAdeMO L3 charging stations and, as far as I'm aware, there have been no firm commitments by the current crop of L3 manufacturers to adopt this silly thing as of yet. So, by then, maybe it's owners of cars with this new plug who will be needing the adapter to CHAdeMO, rather than the other way around.

 

[davewill]

It boggles the mind, it does. I considered buying a Volt. In the end the price and styling of the Leaf is what swayed me that direction. Certainly nothing to do with the Volt having a gasoline engine inside of it.

It boggles mine, too, although I DID reject the Volt because it used gas, and because when running as a hybrid its mileage is unacceptable...although I'd definitely consider it if I was a one car household.

 

[TRONZ]

So would a Volt be the perfect second car for a Spark owner??? How many Volt owners have a second gas car as well???

 

[evnow]

So would a Volt be the perfect second car for a Spark owner??? How many Volt owners have a second gas car as well???

Not for us.

Typically people want to own a compact car & a larger car. So I'd like to own a Leaf/Spark/Mitsu i and a larger CUV that is a PHEV. If executed will, Ford Energi would be my ideal second car with an engine.

 

[evnow]

You guys are ridiculous. I always saw it that people who drive a Leaf or a Volt are on the same team. Why all the bickering? You'd think somebody jumped on here and said they driver a Hummer and want to crush your Leaf with it. I post things every now and then on the Volt forum and I've had people insult me over there for driving a Leaf. It boggles the mind, it does. I considered buying a Volt. In the end the price and styling of the Leaf is what swayed me that direction. Certainly nothing to do with the Volt having a gasoline engine inside of it.

I think Volt's concept is good - but execution not so much. But what really bothers people is GM's antics around it. All the lies they told early on - and then the anti-EV rhetoric and FUD to promote Volt vs Leaf. They didn't want to attack gas hoggers that they mostly sell and make money off of - but they wanted to attack an EV !! Why ?

All this anti-EV rhetoric convinced people (who were already sceptical of GM that had crushed EV1) that essentially GM hadn't changed. Add to that fierce anti-EV stance of Volt fans - you have the recipe for this "fight".

Coming back on topic, I hope all this will change because of Spark EV. Will Spark EV get a second rate treatment from GM and will they continue the anti-EV "range anxiety" rhetoric ?

 

[mwalsh]

Official Nissan response to the Spark:

"We welcome it, competition is great for this segment, we encourage it"....."Again, another vehicle, the Spark, increases awareness, it's going to increase the segment size and increase the business for everyone."

Brendan Jones, Director of Marketing & Sales Strategy for Nissan LEAF.

 

[surfingslovak]

Official Nissan response to the Spark:

"We welcome it, competition is great for this segment, we encourage it"....."Again, another vehicle, the Spark, increases awareness, it's going to increase the segment size and increase the business for everyone."

Amen.