Comparing the Nissan Leaf to the BMW M3

[surfingslovak]

I stumbled upon this gem of an article recently, and since it doesn't look like it has been posted before, here it is!

A Totally Unfair Comparison

My criteria do not include the cost of gas. The difference in environmental impact is pretty minor. So the top selling points for the Leaf -- irrelevant to me. What matters to me is how well the car performs, even though nowadays that mostly is the 6 miles to and from work. So fundamentally this comparison is comparing the Leaf to the M3 using the criteria that make the M3 the ultimate driving machine.

The first difference is response time. The M3 responds quickly. But the Leaf responds instantly. Press the accelerator and you are accelerating. Turn it on and seconds later it is fully on. Turn it off and it's off. This is akin to the difference between booting up Windows and hitting the home button on your iPad. Instantaneous makes a gas powered vehicle's response delay feel obsolete.

Second the acceleration in the Leaf is amazing. Better than the M3. Some of that advantage is the Leaf is accelerating instantaneously. But an electric engine also accelerates faster, with no difference in power over ranges of RPM. (There was a kid in some GT sports car who blasted out from a green light figuring he would show the old guy in the boxy mom-mobile how much faster he was. So I hit the accelerator and blew by him -- he's probably still wondering how that happened.)

The third giant difference is that there's no drama to it. When you accelerate in the M3 you feel and hear the engine as it accelerates through each gear. You feel the jump as you shift and the engine changes tone to run up again on the next gear. With the Leaf you are just going faster. No sound, no jumps, just faster speed. In fact you have to watch the speedometer for the first couple of weeks because you will find you are going a lot faster than you think.

Did I Make the Right Decision?

Yes. I still own my M3 (will be selling it soon). And not once have I even thought of driving it instead. When I drive my wife's Acura (a very nice car), I find myself feeling like I am using a more primitive technology. Not in a major way, but the little differences add up. Nissan didn't get it perfect, but they got a lot right. And their bet on electric vehicles will be seen as a brilliant move 10 years from now.

The major reason I selected the Leaf over the BMW was because I was curious. The only way to understand an electric vehicle is to own one. Reading about it doesn't give you a real understanding. Owning one, with decisions on every trip revolving around battery charge has taught me how this is key to the technology's viability (and I'm still learning). Equally important, driving an E.V. daily has impressed on me that all the small advantages add up to a car that makes gas powered cars obsolete. The difference is akin to when the iPhone came out -- on a feature list the differences were minor. But in practice it made all existing phones obsolete.

We're clearly going to see rapid advances in the electric vehicles offered over the next couple of years. The Tesla and Leaf are version 1.0 and they have room for significant improvement. I was the second person in Boulder to purchase a Leaf. I plan on being the first to buy an electric BMW. (And hopefully they'll do a quality job on the software component -- including the ability to play Russian Pop.)

 

[Cheezmo]

Can't say I completely agree with that article (try accelerating from 60 to pass someone...)

But, I did sell a 1997 BMW M3 and replace it with the Leaf. Different cars entirely, but no regrets, and lack of spirited acceleration would have killed the deal.

 

[Drivesolo]

That's great to hear that David is as enthusiastic w/ his Leaf as he is. But to claim better performance than an M3... ehhh...? I've never owned an M3, I have driven a few in autoX along w/ a few other 3-series Bimmers, however for me the car the Leaf replaced was a BMW E46 325i. I can say that probably w/ the exception of 0-30 mph, my old Bimmer was faster than the Leaf in every way and even then it was pretty much nothing when compared to an E46 M3.

More power to ya Dave. Glad you love the Leaf!

 

[adric22]

This makes me really wonder about something. All of us at one time or another have commented about how we like the instant torque of the electric motor. And the Leaf and Volt both do pretty well and I think very few people that actually drive one go away thinking that they are slow vehicles.

But I wonder if the future marketing of EVs might require stepping up the acceleration a lot. Tesla has certainly put a lot of consideration into that. I think if the next generation of EVs can do 0-60 in maybe 5 or 6 seconds, that would be a good marketing tool. And the cool thing is I don't think it would affect the fuel economy (miles per Kwh) all that much. At least nothing like the hit you take when putting a larger engine in an ICE vehicle.

That would certainly give additional segment of the car market a reason to want one. There are plenty, plenty of people who care nothing about fuel economy or environmental concerns. But they do care about performance. I could see the EV market catering to that performance crowd in a few years.

That is sort of how DVD video got its start. I was always interested in the format simply because I was tired of clunky VHS tapes. I hated rewinding them. I hated trying to find a particular place in the video. I hated how much space they took up, and how unreliable they could be. So those features are what drew me to DVD. However, I think the largest market for DVD ended up being those videophiles who wanted a better picture quality. They are the ones that really grew the market, despite the shortcomings of the format (couldn't record your favorite shows, cost was very high for the hardware)

So I can see a lot of parallels there. If they started making EVs particularly fast, I think a huge chunk of the car enthusiast crowd would defect over to EVs, and as a byproduct they'd pull the masses along with them.

 

[scottf200]

<snip>
But I wonder if the future marketing of EVs might require stepping up the acceleration a lot. Tesla has certainly put a lot of consideration into that. I think if the next generation of EVs can do 0-60 in maybe 5 or 6 seconds, that would be a good marketing tool. And the cool thing is I don't think it would affect the fuel economy (miles per Kwh) all that much. At least nothing like the hit you take when putting a larger engine in an ICE vehicle.

That would certainly give additional segment of the car market a reason to want one. There are plenty, plenty of people who care nothing about fuel economy or environmental concerns. But they do care about performance. I could see the EV market catering to that performance crowd in a few years.<snip>

Bingo. Had this conversation just a few days ago. Many people spend extra on performance on the current cars out there so that helps with the price gap.

For my next EV performance is a fairly high factor.

 

[DaveEV]

But an electric engine also accelerates faster, with no difference in power over ranges of RPM.

Well, he's wrong here as much as I'd like to believe otherwise. The LEAF has constant torque below ~30 mph - produces less then 80 kW until you get to 30 mph - above 30 mph you do produce max power but at that point you quickly start losing ground to cars which can produce more than 80 kW.

 

[Valdemar]

But to claim better performance than an M3... ehhh...?

Considering his bimmer had 22 years of "hard life" and with 200k miles on odometer it doesn't sound all that impossible

 

[TomT]

Having owned two M3s (E36 and E46), I have to wonder if the original author of the article actually every drove one... The M3 is lightning quick in every respect in comparison to a Leaf, at least if driven by a competent driver... They were the most fun to drive cars I have ever owned and were equally at home and civilized slogging through stop and go traffic.

 

[jkirkebo]

Having owned two M3s (E36 and E46), I have to wonder if the original author of the article actually every drove one... The M3 is lightning quick in every respect in comparison to a Leaf, at least if driven by a competent driver... They were the most fun to drive cars I have ever owned and were equally at home and civilized slogging through stop and go traffic.

Acceleration is not all that makes a car quick. If you are prepared to really race, then many cars will beat the Leaf. Atr least after 30mph. But if you suddenly want to accelerate, the Leaf really shines. Full power at once. In a manual car, you must first depress the clutch, shift to first, release the clutch and simultaneously depress the gas pedal. In an automatic car, you must wait for the gearbox to make the change after pressing on the pedal.

The Leaf will already be far ahead.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Much of the LEAF acceleration off the line is perception as well. My very heavy Tacoma would likely take the LEAF off the line, it easily does this to many BMWs because of the torque. I had a conversion EV that was based on an economy car and it would easily kill the LEAF off the line and to high speeds up to 130. They both had the same weight. The LEAF drive is set up for efficiency not performance and if the performance were in the 5-6 second range then there would be compromises to be made and likely the addition of pack cooling. However, there are some ways to make the LEAF much faster off the line without increasing the power taken form the pack since the LEAF is power restricted off the line.

 

[Cheezmo]

I think a big part of the "feeling" of quick acceleration in an EV is the lack of shifting. There are no hiccups in power going from one gear to the next so it is just a continuous smooth acceleration. Obviously not as fast but feels fast for that reason.

 

[TomT]

Actually, the M3 developed 80% of its maximum torque at only 1,500 rpm so it pulled hard in any gear without having to downshift. Throttle response was darn near instantaneous (as was shifting if you had the DSG which even had launch control). A favorite game played by M3 owners was to secure a 100 dollar bill on the dash and tell the passenger that they could have it if they could get it before the car hit 3rd gear from a standing start. I don't think anyone ever lost one.

In a manual car, you must first depress the clutch, shift to first, release the clutch and simultaneously depress the gas pedal. In an automatic car, you must wait for the gearbox to make the change after pressing on the pedal.

 

[aqn]

In a manual car, you must first depress the clutch, shift to first, release the clutch and simultaneously depress the gas pedal. In an automatic car, you must wait for the gearbox to make the change after pressing on the pedal.

Actually, the M3 developed 80% of its maximum torque at only 1,500 rpm so it pulled hard in any gear without having to downshift.

In any gear? Would you be willing to have the M3 in sixth gear at 1500 rpm race against a LEAF?

 

[aqn]

I stumbled upon this gem of an article recently, and since it doesn't look like it has been posted before, here it is!
http://huff.to/bmw3leaf

A Totally Unfair Comparison

My criteria do not include the cost of gas. The difference in environmental impact is pretty minor.

"Minor"?! Seriously?!

 

[surfingslovak]

A Totally Unfair Comparison

My criteria do not include the cost of gas. The difference in environmental impact is pretty minor.

"Minor"?! Seriously?!

David made some pretty controversial statements in that article, but that's one of the reasons why I posted it here. He obviously likes the Leaf. A lot. That said, I just came across this YouTube video, which reminded me of this tread. Bill Caswell of World Rally Championship fame took an M3 conversion from EV World for a spin around the neighborhood recently. His reaction speaks volumes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnCgW5tSsc[/youtube]

 

[Boomer23]

A Totally Unfair Comparison

My criteria do not include the cost of gas. The difference in environmental impact is pretty minor.

"Minor"?! Seriously?!

David made some pretty controversial statements in that article, but that's one of the reasons why I posted it here. He obviously likes the Leaf. A lot. That said, I just came across this YouTube video, which reminded me of this tread. Bill Caswell of World Rally Championship fame took an M3 conversion from EV World for a spin around the neighborhood recently. His reaction speaks volumes.

It's actually EV West, George. http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=ad148mv6ni8sdpgd3rmgl0k052" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

It's actually EV West, George. http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=ad148mv6ni8sdpgd3rmgl0k052" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Right, sorry about that! Looks like they do great work. I would love to test drive that M3 conversion ;-)

 

[tailgate1234]

I have an E90 M3 in addition to my LEAF. There is no comparison - the M3 performs significantly better in every respect - except "fuel" cost.

 

[TomT]

Sure! In 6th gear at 1,500 rpm the M3 is already doing close to the speed where the Leaf basically has little acceleration left so bring it on! :lol:

In any gear? Would you be willing to have the M3 in sixth gear at 1500 rpm race against a LEAF?

 

[Cheezmo]

Having had a 1997 M3, and now a Leaf and Volt, I can tell you the Volt is WAY closer to driving like an M3 than the Leaf. Still pretty far away, but the Leaf's mid speed acceleration, steering, and overall handling just make it crazy to even talk about in one thread.

If you have an M3 and are looking to go EV (PHEV, EREV, whatever). I would recommend looking that the Volt. You may be surprised.