I am considering purchasing a used 2014 Leaf SL for 14,500 with 10,750 miles on it. One of the main concerns I have is the battery replacement. The sales man says the battery will not need to be replaced until 2022 which seems like a long way off. However after contacting the same dealers service department they are saying it is $5800.00 just for the battery and $1400.00 for the labor. I really like the car and think runs as good as any gas powered car however I am trying to find out how this car makes sense to own knowing that repair will cost more than the car. How does everyone justify owning one knowing that this will eventually happen? Thanks.
considering to buy used
- Thread starter Adam12
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desiv
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It all depends.. ;-)Adam12 said:
I think it's likely that the car will still work in 2022 with the existing battery. But will it work for you?
It will degrade over time. And if you (or the car has been) are in a hot climate, it will degrade even more...
There are a lot of variables to consider...
What is your required commute?
Where do you live?
What is the current battery health? (Using an OBD2 adapter and Leaf Spy can give you that info)
Is it likely your commute now will still be your commute in 6 years?
etc..
desiv
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LIke what desiv said, it depends on you.
You should assume that the Leaf will have no more than 70% capacity after another 6 years. If 70% of the range will work for you, then it may well be a very economical option for you. If you want a more accurate assessment, there is another thread somewhere on this forum that predicts end-of-life for these batteries depending upon your geographic location. Also, as noted, observing the true state of the battery at present and the loss it has experienced thus far would be informative.
You should assume that the Leaf will have no more than 70% capacity after another 6 years. If 70% of the range will work for you, then it may well be a very economical option for you. If you want a more accurate assessment, there is another thread somewhere on this forum that predicts end-of-life for these batteries depending upon your geographic location. Also, as noted, observing the true state of the battery at present and the loss it has experienced thus far would be informative.
cwerdna
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LOL! That depends on the climate where you live, the distance of your commutes/trips, whether there's charging at your destinations, etc. If you lived in say Phoenix and you were already at the edge of Leaf's range w/no ability to charge at your destinations, you might need a new battery within 1 to 3 years due to degradation.Adam12 said:
If your needs are very modest in terms of range and you live in a cool climate (e.g. Seattle area), then your battery could be usable for your use cases for well beyond 2022.
The $1400 for labor sounds WAY too high.Adam12 said:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102&p=438439#p438439
Yes, re: the cost of the battery vs. value of the car. See my replies to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=435921.
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?
I live in Northeast Ohio. I would be using the car to commute to work the trip is 39 miles round trip the speed limit on the commute would be mostly 60-65 mph. Outside from that I would use it occasionally on the weekend and not much more. I was under the impression that I could just charge it at home every other day to make the commute with 120 volt cord it comes with. Also when you bought your car what is your plan when the battery is no longer usable? Do you like the car that much that you would pay $6000 plus to get it replaced or do you anticipate that at the end of its life the battery will be more economical? As far as battery health I can't say how healty as I didn't even know about these until I read your post. thanks
desiv
Well-known member
Adam12 said:
40 miles isn't too bad..
My concern would be in the winter...
I have a 12 bar (some degradation, because it's a 12, but not over 15% yet) Leaf.
I can easily do 60 miles on a full charge still... Even more in nice weather.
But with the heater on and in a storm, 50 would probably be safe..
Now, after another 3 years and I'm down a bar or 2... Possibly not..
40 isn't bad at all for a Leaf, but if you have a snowstorm (we almost never do here where I am) would a Leaf be able to do that in 2022, at highway speeds???
This chart might help a bit..
desiv
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40 miles round trip commute should be very workable for quite a decent timeframe. At end of battery life you should still be able to do over 50 mile round trip, though I can't speak for how bad the impact on range would be during a cold storm in your area. If you have the ability to charge at your workplace, then you should be good.
As for battery replacement, there is a lot of debate on here about whether that makes economic sense. Most seem to look at the trade-in value of the car at the time and conclude they don't want to invest another $6k into a car with such a low value. I'm of the view that it depends on the car's condition. $6k to double the life of a car I like is a bargain vs. trading it in and forking over much more to buy a new one. However, if the car is otherwise starting to fall apart from use at that point, I wouldn't make the investment. I won't know for sure until I get there, which is years away, and can assess the condition of the car.
As for battery replacement, there is a lot of debate on here about whether that makes economic sense. Most seem to look at the trade-in value of the car at the time and conclude they don't want to invest another $6k into a car with such a low value. I'm of the view that it depends on the car's condition. $6k to double the life of a car I like is a bargain vs. trading it in and forking over much more to buy a new one. However, if the car is otherwise starting to fall apart from use at that point, I wouldn't make the investment. I won't know for sure until I get there, which is years away, and can assess the condition of the car.
user 10599
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I think desiv forgot to link the chart. Idk if this is what he was posting, but it is rather informative and provides a chart on battery life expectations depending on your location. For Columbus, OH, at 7.2 years you should have about 70% capacity. For a 2014, that would be about 2021ish.
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss
mjblazin
Well-known member
Doesn't that 2014 car qualify for the 5 yr/60K miles/8 bars warranty? Time alone gets it most of the way. With anything less than ideal temp conditions, it had a good chance of losing the 4th bar over next 3-3.5 years. At 10K mileage, it should not be mileage constrained as do most most cars cited here that miss the cutoff.
Operating with same battery through 2022 seems unlikely . The cost for battery replacement would be a 2023 or 2024 issue.
Operating with same battery through 2022 seems unlikely . The cost for battery replacement would be a 2023 or 2024 issue.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
You will definitely have to charge everyday, not every other day for a 40 mile highway commute.
DanCar
Well-known member
Not much different between 2014 and 2013 and you'll save a few thousand.
desiv
Well-known member
Doh!! ;-)DarthPuppy said:
Was thinking of this link actually
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295
... but that's great info too..
desiv
I doubt you would ever replace the battery on that car even if you did wind up buying it. I will point out that I think $14500 is a tad bit high for a 2014 SL, so I'd try to negotiate a lower price for sure. I'd also go buy an OBD reader and get an APP like leaf-spy and test the battery on the car you are about to buy in order to see how the pack is holding up and how much remaining capacity you have on it. In Ohio, I would assume that 5% loss per calendar year would be about right. Odds are that unless the price of the replacement battery decreases, or Nissan stops holding back the 30kwh battery for backward compatibility, you'll probably not want to buy a new pack, and you'll likely just sell the car as is.
smkettner
Well-known member
Mostly we are hoping the cost in 2022 will be half and the capacity will be double. 
Labor may even go down if independents are doing the swap.
Labor may even go down if independents are doing the swap.
Welcome! A 40 mi RT commute is perfect for the Leaf. However, the battery will degrade, even in your area (but not as much as AZ). If you plan on eventually having 1/2 the range, you won't be disappointed. If you plan on having 80 mi range until 2020, you will be disappointed.Adam12 said:
Spend some time reading here before making your decision. As others said, winter is the most difficult time since you must spend battery energy to heat the cabin (unlike a gas car which wastes 80% of the energy as heat). You can actually get about 1/2 the range in winter if you aren't careful. You will absolutely need the SL or SV model for the more efficient heat pump (don't get the cheaper S which has an energy hog heater). Also, you will need to install a Level 2 (240 V, 40 amp) charging station at home to take advantage of the timed preheating. You will absolutely need to charge every night, probably 3-4 hr on L2. If you try to stick with the L1 (120V) you will need to charge at least 10 hr, and might not t make it back to full in the winter time. Plus L1 is nearly worthless for preheating below about 20 F. Also, if you don't have a garage, outside charging can be a bear in extreme weather (snow, ice) and the car will take more energy to pre-warm in the morning.
Finally, if you don't have another gas car for road trips, extremely cold weather, or other emergency situation, it will be difficult to go fully 100% battery electric. If you will only have one vehicle, I'd recommend a Volt right now, but others are also good possibilities. Finally, do you have workplace EV charging or are there stations along your commuting route? Check http://www.plugshare.com. Hmmm, you said NE OH. Do you mean Akron-Cleveland? If so, it's covered with stations and should handle all of your driving needs. Good luck with your decision, and feel free to check back with additional questions or let us know what you decided.
EDIT: Look closely at 2011-2012 vs. 2013-2015 Leafs. There are significant differences between the batteries, models, cold weather packages, etc. Also, used Leafs may come from warmer areas (AZ, TX, FL, CA) and have significant hidden battery degradation (get LeafSpy to check). Also, look closely at prices. If you pay more than $10K, it's probably too much. You can lease a new 2015 Leaf pretty cheap, so used prices have to drop significantly to be a deal. Remember, used car dealers make a pretty good mark up. There are threads here that show recent auction amounts.
Great input above. I would second the need for an L2 charger. I have a 40 mile commute and a 2013 SV. I consider the L2 a necessity as the charge rate on 120 V is just too slow. It is nice to pull in at home and be able to add about 25 miles range in an hours charging. I usually find I can arrive at home and toss it on the charger if we are going out and I can get the range I need before we need to leave. This is basically impossible with the L1 as it adds just 5 or 6 miles of range in an hour.
Remember to factor the price of the L2 and the installation into your decision. I paid about $500 for my L2 and it was about $250 to get it installed in my garage.
Remember to factor the price of the L2 and the installation into your decision. I paid about $500 for my L2 and it was about $250 to get it installed in my garage.
user 10599
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desiv said:
That's an awesome link! I think one of those is worth printing out and keeping in the car.
And as noted above, also get a L2 charger. We find that we get much more use out of the Leaf as we are able to quickly charge it when we stop back home throughout the day on weekends. With the 240/30 amp kit, it charges pretty fast.
For northern Ohio, solar probably isn't as good an option for you. But in So. Calif., we added solar with enough for our house plus about 10k miles per year on the Leaf. So we have no fuel cost, except the amortization of the panels.
+1 I'll also be printing out that MPH chartDarthPuppy said:
I like how it compares 208v and 240v charge rates, a question I had in another thread.Off topic for this thread I know, but are public charging stations always 208v? I've never used one so I don't know but all commercial buildings I've charged at are 3 phase 208v. Too bad we couldn't utilize 277v or even 480v to charge our Leafs(what modern commercial buildings use) but I suppose that would open up a whole can of worms, mostly safety related :shock:
