Dealer visit. Well that didn't go so well.

[DaveinOlyWA]

i was one of the first to get the Prius when it came out, one of the first to get the Zenn when it came out and my sister works for Ford. i can tell u, with new products, they all get a BRIEF info training session on it. but its usually one person from each location and they are responsible for relaying what they learned to the rest of the staff.

when the Fusion Hybrid came out, my sister talked to the one guy in sales (she is in service dept and no one from there went) who went for the training and he pretty much had little or no specific info other than a few brochures to hand out. (these were already posted on public forums so no new info)

its like anything new. the info starts in one place and slowly swells out from there. it will probably be 3-4 months after release before the average salesman will know anything about the different charging options

 

[sparky]

I've clicked on the "make this my preferred dealer" and "allow this dealer to contact me" thing three times for three different dealers.
Originally, within 20 mi there were only three dealers listed as "Nissan LEAF reservation certified".
Now there are 10; nice!

But, the 3 that have responded via email have all been duds. I asked specific questions about their LEAF rollout participation, test drives and lease vs buy questions and they only responded with standard boilerplate sales b.s. followed by a raft of emails asking whether they've answered all my questions or how soon can they get me into a GT-R.
Exasperating.
This weekend I may visit the one nearest my house and take a Versa test drive (seems close to LEAF dimensions). Perhaps then I'll have a chance to assess their LEAF state of readiness face to face.

 

[evnow]

This weekend I may visit the one nearest my house and take a Versa test drive (seems close to LEAF dimensions). Perhaps then I'll have a chance to assess their LEAF state of readiness face to face.

See the thread on Leaf size. It is very close to Prius in size and bigger than Versa.

 

[sparky]

This weekend I may visit the one nearest my house and take a Versa test drive (seems close to LEAF dimensions). Perhaps then I'll have a chance to assess their LEAF state of readiness face to face.

See the thread on Leaf size. It is very close to Prius in size and bigger than Versa.

Good point. I'll try the Sentra since it's the same C-platform I think. Or, maybe try each.
Thanks for the tip.

 

[LeafHopper]

I have an excellent Leaf specialist. He invited me to go with him to the Leaf test drive. I was able to drive the Leaf mule (test vehicle) twice. He was very professional and friendly. He is Robert Gortarez at Avondale Nissan in Avondale, AZ. The Leaf is an incredible car. I was able to talk to members of the design and testing teams for more than an hour. I am an engineer so I asked some very technical questions about aerodynamics, heating, and environmental conditions. They gave me very frank and detailed answers to all of my questions. The Leaf is an incredible, well-designed car. I was ready to write a check on the spot.

 

[garygid]

LeafH...,
Will you share your technical (and other) Questions, and their answers, Please?

 

[mwalsh]

I have an excellent Leaf specialist. He invited me to go with him to the Leaf test drive. I was able to drive the Leaf mule (test vehicle) twice. He was very professional and friendly. He is Robert Gortarez at Avondale Nissan in Avondale, AZ. The Leaf is an incredible car. I was able to talk to members of the design and testing teams for more than an hour. I am an engineer so I asked some very technical questions about aerodynamics, heating, and environmental conditions. They gave me very frank and detailed answers to all of my questions. The Leaf is an incredible, well-designed car. I was ready to write a check on the spot.

Soooo jealous!

 

[sparky]

I have an excellent Leaf specialist. He invited me to go with him to the Leaf test drive. I was able to drive the Leaf mule (test vehicle) twice. He was very professional and friendly.

Yeah, same for me. I went to the "Leaf specialist" dealer nearest me and asked about the Leaf. Was handed off to the closest sales person who said they "don't know nothing about it yet". Then she said they'll have one next month. Then she wanted me to test drive the Versa "cuz that's about the same except the Leaf is more expensive cuz it's electric". I decided not to test drive anything there 'cuz I just remembered why I hate talking to cliche car salespeople.

On to the next closest dealer. Nissan has their work cut out for them. Can I buy direct from the factory like I did with Volvo?
I'm not sure the first crop of Leafers; internet-savvy early adopter types; will mix well with the typical car pusher.
LeafHopper, I envy.

 

[evnow]

I'm not sure the first crop of Leafers; internet-savvie early adopter types; will mix well with the typical car pusher.

That about sums it up.

But you see the same problem in many industries - whether it is computers or lectronics or mobile phones.

 

[LeafHopper]

Will you share your technical (and other) Questions, and their answers, Please?

It was over 5 months ago that I asked the questions so I have forgotten much of it, but I will try. A lot of the answers have been revealed since this time and can be found on this forum.

The battery compartment has no active temperature control. It has been tested during the summer heat in Phoenix and they only saw a 1 or 2 degree temperature rise above the ambient temperatures. All of the cooling will be conductive to the battery case and mostly convective cooling. Very high Arizona summer temperatures reduced the mileage by 10 to 20%. The battery position is as shown on many sites: under the seat and arranged no more than 4 modules high. Some are vertical and some are horizontal.

Lots of studies were done on aerodynamics in a wind tunnel. Great effort was taken to reduce the drag coefficient. The lead designer said that it was not optimal since the roofline would have to be lowered too much for the rear passengers. But he did talk a lot about the vortex breakers under the car and the design of the rear end which cuts the flows more cleanly than a sloped trunk lid. He also showed me how the headlight covers were designed to channel the airflow around the side mirrors and reduce the drag. The front end is lower and tiny vortex breakers like you see on an airplane wing are placed in front of the windshield.

No transmission, only a transaxle. My test drive revealed that acceleration is very smooth and very quick. Good power for everything except drag racing. :lol:

Blue paint on the Leaf used for the tour was special paint that will not be used on the production model.

The test track team said that they had tested the vehicle in every part of Arizona. And given that Arizona has a lot of different climatic and road conditions. It has also been tested in the winter conditions of northern Japan near Sapporo. There responses were in my judgement honest, thorough, and without any prepackaged answers. They had positive things to say about the air conditioning which was of great interest to me since I live in Phoenix. My personal experience in my 2 test drives was that it was very stable, cornered easily, and accelerated smoothly.

At that time there was some uncertainty about the charging connections. But I know that has been resolved and standardized now.

I will think of more questions and answers later. I spent 2 hours at the demo area. I was ready to write a check on the spot.

 

[sjfotos]

Thanks so much for the report leafhopper--very informative. I am really glad to hear of the tests near Sapporo. It can get down to about 10 to 20 degrees F in the winter there. Not Minnesota quality in Sapporo, but comparable to Pennsylvania for winter lows.

 

[AndyH]

LEAFHOPPER! Thank you!

Thank you for confirming pack cooling and the testing that backs it up. I figured from other battery tests and my own experience with lithium that fans wouldn't be necessary but thanks for bringing this to us from on of the 'horses mouthes'!

Myth Busted!

 

[EVDRIVER]

Will you share your technical (and other) Questions, and their answers, Please?

It was over 5 months ago that I asked the questions so I have forgotten much of it, but I will try. A lot of the answers have been revealed since this time and can be found on this forum.

The battery compartment has no active temperature control. It has been tested during the summer heat in Phoenix and they only saw a 1 or 2 degree temperature rise above the ambient temperatures. All of the cooling will be conductive to the battery case and mostly convective cooling. Very high Arizona summer temperatures reduced the mileage by 10 to 20%. The battery position is as shown on many sites: under the seat and arranged no more than 4 modules high. Some are vertical and some are horizontal.

spot.

Do you mean conductive not convective? If the cooling is convective then the pack must have openings at the top for the air to raise out or all the heat will pool at the top and "convection" will stop for all practical reasons. If it was conductive, the pack would be sealed and the temp would radiate off the sides and couple with surrounding body parts. Also, it was mentioned elsewhere that there was a fan to circulate air inside the pack so the pack remains a uniform temp, this makes sense even if the pack is sealed, this is not confirmed as of yet. Somehow I think it will have one or more circulation fans and be sealed but not positive yet.

 

[garygid]

Conduction of heat inside to the sealed pack shell, and external convection (air flow) to remove heat from the shell.

 

[LeafHopper]

Do you mean conductive not convective? If the cooling is convective then the pack must have openings at the top for the air to raise out or all the heat will pool at the top and "convection" will stop for all practical reasons. If it was conductive, the pack would be sealed and the temp would radiate off the sides and couple with surrounding body parts. Also, it was mentioned elsewhere that there was a fan to circulate air inside the pack so the pack remains a uniform temp, this makes sense even if the pack is sealed, this is not confirmed as of yet. Somehow I think it will have one or more circulation fans and be sealed but not positive yet.

My mistake. I was typing faster than my brain. My intent was to write conductive cooling. Certainly there could be convective cooling also even in a sealed container, but it is unimportant at these temperatures compared to conductive cooling. There is no fan inside with the batteries and no air from outside is pushed through the container from the front grill.

Convection would not stop if the container is closed, it would just reach a steady state temperature when the conductive heat transfer out was balanced by the heat produced. But the product designer said that the temperature does not vary more than 1 or 2 degrees F. Photos of the prototype do not show any fans within the battery compartment and I was told that there were no fans.

I also asked them about excessive heating during charging. The answer was that no excessive heating occurred although it was greater than during operation of the vehicle.

 

[garygid]

If the temperature of the battery box is only a few degrees over ambient, then that limits the battery box to about -60F to +120F (+ their over-ambient amount) around the USA lower 48, perhaps occasionally a bit colder in middle Alaska and north-central USA.

Continued testing in Arizona throughout the summer should tell them more about the high-temperature end. The very low end is a totally different matter.

 

[LeafHopper]

Continued testing in Arizona throughout the summer should tell them more about the high-temperature end. The very low end is a totally different matter.

Arizona testing was extensive and during last summer. I am not sure whether it is continuing. I wish I had more information about the effect of high temperatures on battery life. Most people in Phoenix have to get a new battery (lead-acid) every 3 years no matter what the battery warranty. I buy 8 year batteries that last 3 years.

 

[johnr]

When I submitted my reservation online, the site gave me a list of a handful of local dealers (like 4 or 5 I think), and I chose the one I liked. I don't think you're committed to the dealer you choose here, I think this is just to gauge people's preferences so they can better prepare for training, roll-out and such.

 

[garygid]

Two weeks ago only 3 of the 6 closest dealers were marked as having Leaf Specialists. The two closest were not marked.

Now, all 6 are marked.

So, the Nissan Dealer database is getting updated.

 

[mwalsh]

Two weeks ago only 3 of the 6 closest dealers were marked as having Leaf Specialists. The two closest were not marked.

Now, all 6 are marked.

So, the Nissan Dealer database is getting updated.

My problem with that....the dealer I visited was marked about having a Leaf Specialist, and they didn't know squat!