Dealership Gouging for Orphan Leafs

[Train]

Yep, I'm the drive by poster . . . AKA Troll. It seems that some of the Nissan dealerships have taken to posting their marked up Leafs on CraigsList. I guess they don't want to advertise their price gouging since they don't even mention in their Craigslist ads that they are affiliated with dealerships. Here is the link to a Craigslist ad that I called:

If you would have provided details from the onset, no one would have got that impression.

 

[PaulScott]

I was interviewed a while back after starting work selling the LEAF for a SoCal dealership and in the interview, I mentioned in response to a question about orphans, that dealers would sell at market rate. Being new to the car biz, I'd assumed this was normal business practice, and being a capitalist, I saw nothing wrong with selling a popular car to a willing buyer at an agreed upon price. The interview made it to this list and I was castigated for advocating "gouging".

A few months went by, I got my LEAF, and a month later was offered $70K for it. I turned the man down because I did not want to have to wait a good year or more to get another. When I related that on a thread here asking about the price at which you would sell your leaf, many of the people who had criticized my earlier remark about selling at market price were now saying they sure would have taken the $70K.

Funny how that works.

 

[BlueSL]

When I related that on a thread here asking about the price at which you would sell your leaf, many of the people who had criticized my earlier remark about selling at market price were now saying they sure would have taken the $70K.

Funny how that works.

Here's my take. As the Leafs are delivered and the utopian ideals are met with reality, two things happen. 1. Utopians becomes more practical. 2. New, less utopian viewpoints find their way to this board. The combination explains the change of heart you describe.

 

[derkraut]

I was interviewed a while back after starting work selling the LEAF for a SoCal dealership and in the interview, I mentioned in response to a question about orphans, that dealers would sell at market rate. Being new to the car biz, I'd assumed this was normal business practice, and being a capitalist, I saw nothing wrong with selling a popular car to a willing buyer at an agreed upon price. The interview made it to this list and I was castigated for advocating "gouging".

A few months went by, I got my LEAF, and a month later was offered $70K for it. I turned the man down because I did not want to have to wait a good year or more to get another. When I related that on a thread here asking about the price at which you would sell your leaf, many of the people who had criticized my earlier remark about selling at market price were now saying they sure would have taken the $70K.

Funny how that works.

Well stated Mr. Scott. IMHO, any dealer should be free to sell a car at whatever price the buyer is willing to pay.

 

[Jimmydreams]

A few months went by, I got my LEAF, and a month later was offered $70K for it. I turned the man down because I did not want to have to wait a good year or more to get another. When I related that on a thread here asking about the price at which you would sell your leaf, many of the people who had criticized my earlier remark about selling at market price were now saying they sure would have taken the $70K.

Funny how that works.

I don't think so, Paul. If you want to offer to buy my Leaf, and I say $70K, that's my one and only shot at making a buck off my car. A dealer will sell how many Leaf's over the course of a day/week/month?? BIG difference. At MSRP, the dealer is still making money....how much is the actual invoice? Holdback $$? "dealer prep" $$?? etc. etc. etc.

Face it, the dealer has all the cards. If they raise the price, they can do it on TOP of these other 'fees' as well as have multiple cars to play pricing games with. If I sell my car, I have only one of these options and can exercise that option only once.

HUGE difference.

 

[Train]

So who's to say what level of profit is acceptable? Who is the arbiter of that?

NO difference at all. If you sell your car to someone who offered $70K, you're doing the exact same thing in principle that a car dealer does...maximize their profit. Whether you're selling one or selling a hundred, you want to make the most profit.

Because a business has hundreds of them is irrelevant. They sell at market value. The dealer has all the cards but again, no one is forcing you to buy at that price. If it's too high, walk away.

Because you have only one shot at making a profit doesn't make that position morally, ethically superior. That's rationalizing. It's the exact same principle...making the most profit from a sale. But somehow if the dealer does it, it's wrong. If you do it, it's OK. A double standard and hypocritical.

 

[smkettner]

The only alternative is to have price fixing. Last to try that was Nixon in the early 70s and we know how that went

 

[Herm]

It has always bothered, since I was a teenager, to hear talk of dealers gouging the car buyer.. it is so hypocritical and I got into many heated discussions with friends about it. Yes, I did write the White House when I was a teen and requested a picture of Reagan, they sent me two, signed.. and to this day I have them framed up and on the wall. So many hypocrites in the world. I have mellowed with age and I dont get steamed about it anymore, feel free to complain about dealer gouging

 

[Jimmydreams]

It has always bothered, since I was a teenager, to hear talk of dealers gouging the car buyer.. it is so hypocritical and I got into many heated discussions with friends about it. Yes, I did write the White House when I was a teen and requested a picture of Reagan, they sent me two, signed.. and to this day I have them framed up and on the wall. So many hypocrites in the world. I have mellowed with age and I dont get steamed about it anymore, feel free to complain about dealer gouging

Can I complain about that picture? I was eating dinner. You should have put up a warning or something..... :lol:

(but really, what does RR have to do with the discussion?)

 

[avanti5010]

The truth is the chimp was running the US, not Ronnie.

 

[EVDRIVER]

He was a pioneer in the use of solar power.

 

[TRONZ]

If a dealer is trying to get people to walk away from their cars then Nissan needs to step up. It would not be hard to hold the cars at port until the car is accepted by the owner for delivery. Due to the ease of paying $99 to reserve/order a LEAF I am not surprised that cars are being orphaned many months later when it's time to walk the walk. Nissan is not sweating it and yes dealers that opted out of RAQ'ing LEAFs are now beating their heads on the wall.

Regarding prices, Sometimes it's a buyers market. Sometimes it's a sellers market. Not much more you can do other than make sure you accept your car when it comes in.

 

[SkiTundra]

The dealer does NOT hold all the cards. A buyer can choose to buy or not buy at the price the dealer asks. That's a lot of cards. If no buyer chooses to buy the dealer doesn't make a sale and sits on the car (they've already paid for it and are incurring cost of funds EVERY day that car sits on their lot unsold). Everyone in a rollout area has the option of buying any of these orphaned Leafs. Rather than complain, go buy it.

Also consider that EVERYONE who has a job owes that job to PROFITS. That's what allows a company to pay people, that's where tax dollars come from to pay government employees and welfare recipients, and that's where donations come from for non-profit groups. The promise of profit potential is what drives people to take the risks to invent products and start companies. That $7k extra profit on a Leaf may allow that dealer to keep a mechanic employed for a few more months.

Finally, nothing wrong with a dealer asking a customer if they want to give up their car. Even better if they offer them a $1k or so spiff if they want to walk away. Any pressure past this would be another matter. There were times in my life that I might have called the dealer and offered to make a deal if they wanted to keep mine to sell for over MSRP and would have been very appreciative if they'd taken me up on it.

 

[Boomer23]

He was a pioneer in the use of solar power.

As long as it's not on the White House roof, eh? :lol: <==== emoticon

 

[thankyouOB]

hard to believe gouging car dealers (even ones hiking the car price by 10k) become the heroes to some folks here, and the manufacturer gets to be the bum.

Frankly, Nissan is way more important in this equation than dealers. Nissan built the car and took the risk--and had the vision.

The dealers who are gouging are opportunistic and greedy. What's their vision?
They dont even see the long-run game of building a reputation.
The Gardena GM had it right, he offered msrp minus 1k, and told me that was 'cause it was the right way to build the brand.

 

[smkettner]

The Gardena GM had it right, he offered msrp minus 1k, and told me that was 'cause it was the right way to build the brand.

You got an orphan at 1k under :? That is pretty good

 

[thankyouOB]

The Gardena GM had it right, he offered msrp minus 1k, and told me that was 'cause it was the right way to build the brand.

You got an orphan at 1k under :? That is pretty good

no, that was his price at original bid. I got mine through the order process.

but it is the same philosophy, when most other dealers were charging MSRP.
He also said it was his philosophy not to be opportunistic with orphans, as well.

 

[walterbays]

The Gardena GM had it right, he offered msrp minus 1k, and told me that was 'cause it was the right way to build the brand.

He was right. That's one thing Saturn did right initially, selling cars at a fair price with no haggling. Saturn must have had special contracts with the dealers to force them to hold to that.

Nissan doesn't have that power. Once Nissan sells a car to a dealer, it's up to the dealer what to charge for it. What Nissan did instead was the online reservation process, much loved and much reviled, which allowed us to buy at MSRP or less - whenever Nissan happens to fill our orders. Or we can pay MSRP + $$$ and get one tomorrow. Some dealers keep their immediate greed in check, no doubt because they calculate that they will thereby make more money in the long term. But it's their calculation to make.

It's not such a rare model. You can plan well ahead and fly for $300, or if you really want to fly tomorrow then it's $1,000. Or if you want to wait quite a while and don't care what particular day you fly, you can probably pay $100 and fly whenever the airline happens to make a seat available to you. And I don't hear anyone accusing the airlines of gouging ... oh wait, bad example, come to think of it everyone accuses the airlines of gouging. But we're all pretty used to it by now.

 

[Train]

hard to believe gouging car dealers (even ones hiking the car price by 10k) become the heroes to some folks here, and the manufacturer gets to be the bum.

Frankly, Nissan is way more important in this equation than dealers. Nissan built the car and took the risk--and had the vision.

The dealers who are gouging are opportunistic and greedy. What's their vision?
They dont even see the long-run game of building a reputation.
The Gardena GM had it right, he offered msrp minus 1k, and told me that was 'cause it was the right way to build the brand.

How is it gouging when you don't have to buy? Explaining the laws of supply and demand to some here doesn't create folkheroes. What it does create is this sense of entitlment that buyers are somehow "owed" a lower price but never a higher price.

I'm sure many here sold their house to the lowest bidder, ignoring all the other higher offers. And if someone sold their house to the highest bidder, of course, that would be greedy.

If someone were to offer you your Leaf, for eighty thousand, you wouldn't take it? Would that be greed?

 

[Herm]

Can I complain about that picture? I was eating dinner. You should have put up a warning or something..... :lol:
(but really, what does RR have to do with the discussion?)

I was just sharing, the subject of gouging brought back my teenager passions... I was very happy when I got those pictures. Would Reagan have supported tax credits for electric cars?, maybe, tax credits are good since they reduce the tax load on those that actually pay taxes.. the very essence of a regressive tax. Then again it is free government money and you know where government gets their money from.

Regarding dealer "gouging", from mild to worst:

1. The person that believes that is anti-capitalistic, a communist liberal wacko, a 60s hippie.
2. Just does not understand basic economics, maybe a combo of ignorance or stupidity?
3. Has zero empathy for other people, its just me, me, me
4. Perhaps such a person makes his living off the tax payer and thus suffers from cognitive dissonance.. lots of people in that camp.
4. A hypocrite