Did the weather do this?

[edatoakrun]

The mod I would like, is to be able to disable the resistive heating element, and have the rest of the CC continue to function, allowing the driver to scavenge the thermal mass of the heatant, and continue to use the defroster and/or heater.

My LBW occurred "early" on Wednesday, a few miles from my home. I'll be unhappy if i have to I turn off my windshield defroster, as an "emergency" range extender, on a rainy/snowy night this Winter.

 

[abasile]

Nope, even turning it all the way down to 60 (the minimum it will go to) will not necessarily disable the heater all the time. Turning off the CC will, of course, but then you can't use the fan.

The temperature is around 35 F here this morning. So, I just confirmed this behavior by going out to the car, turning on the climate control to run the fan, turning off the AC, and setting the temperature at 60. Sure enough, after a couple minutes, the climate control was using 5 kW according to the Energy Info screen!

This is definitely a design flaw. We should be able to control whether or not to run the heater. The workaround, to keep energy use down, is to not run the climate control continuously when you need to defog/defrost. Just run it enough to keep the windows clear. Ah, the beauty of a first generation car model. I'm loving it, though.

 

[EricBayArea]

As I am picking my car up tomorrow and this morning the temps were in the 40s here, this is very interesting. I'm looking at getting leather added to the car and I have the option to add front seat heaters for $500 more. As I have heated seats in my Subaru, I tried to use those in lieu of the heater and they actually warm you up nicely.

However, the point about turning on the defroster with AC & heat is an interesting point.

:?: for the masses - If CC is OFF, do I still have the options as a normal ICE car to turn recirculating air off to allow outside ambient air to flow through the cabin (or turn recir. on to stop outside air flow)?

Additionally, am I correct in reading that I cannot turn the fan without climate control on to increase the outside ambient air to flow into the car? If so, that's lame.

 

[davewill]

Additionally, am I correct in reading that I cannot turn the fan without climate control on to increase the outside ambient air to flow into the car? If so, that's lame.

Yes, if you want the fan, the only way to NOT have heat is to turn the temp control down, which doesn't work if the ambient temp falls below 60. Very lame and obviously a hold over from ICE cars where the heat comes for free.

 

[edatoakrun]

Ok...

What happens if you turn the AC on, set the thermostat above ambient temp, select defrost mode, and turn up the fan?

Does it do anything to de-fog the windshield?

And I was ridiculed on this forum last year when I said I would carry a 12 Volt plug-in defroster in my LEAF during the winter...

 

[kmp647]

If you set the temp above amb, turn a/c on , turn fan , and set mode to defrost:

Heater will energize 2-5k watts
a/c compressor will run to dehumidify 250 to 500 watts
fan will blow at the set speed ? 100 to 300 watts ?

it all adds up , very poor design

you should have a button for "heat"

you should have a choice as to wether or not to energize the heater coil and heat the bottle or not

even having lower temps on the auto climate say down to 50 might help

Lets say its 20 F in the afternoon when I leave work
I have 4 choices highest energy consumption to lowest
1> full climate auto to 72F heated and dehumified air
2 auto climate to say maybe 60F plus turn on heated seats and steering wheel (2012 model)
3 no climate and crank up heated heated seats to hi and steering wheel heat
4 no climate no heated seats, wear a crazy hat , gloves and a George castanza parka

 

[edatoakrun]

...you should have a choice as to wether or not to energize the heater coil and heat the bottle or not...

As I wrote before, putting a kill switch in-line to the heatant tank resistance heater, might be a simple mod, increasing the driver's options.

I have no Idea what effect this would have on other CC operations, though.

I plan to carry, if not wear, "...a crazy hat , gloves and a Greorge castanza parka...", whenever driving through a remote area in a BEV in cold weather.

 

[kmp647]

Can you guys in the colder areas see how much ECO mode affects cold weather heater energy use?

maybe the combo of ECO and choosing 65F auto on a cold morning will reduce consumption?

 

[MikeD]

Is there a feasible way to fool the ambient temperature sensor to make it think the ambient temperature is greater than the cabin temperature setting (thus preventing the heater from coming on when turning on the fan)?

 

[DesertDenizen]

Well all you people were right. I did my usual ride with the CC off and bounced up to 5.3 miles kwh. Tucson is a great place for a Leaf, I can leave CC off fall, winter and spring. (Not to mention the plethora of photons for my photovoltaic system.)

 

[EricBayArea]

Last question, can I turn CC off and have outside air flow in, without the fan blowing?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ok...

What happens if you turn the AC on, set the thermostat above ambient temp, select defrost mode, and turn up the fan?

Does it do anything to de-fog the windshield?

And I was ridiculed on this forum last year when I said I would carry a 12 Volt plug-in defroster in my LEAF during the winter...

How much? Do you have a link

How much. Shop you have Link

 

[Herm]

And I was ridiculed on this forum last year when I said I would carry a 12 Volt plug-in defroster in my LEAF during the winter...

It wont be fast, you have to be patient.. I use a 12v blower one on my astronomy equipment and it only draws about 150w.. perhaps if you rig up a stand and have it run continuously.. something with about 500w would be perfect, but you cant run it on 12V.

Big selection at Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_kw=Auto&_kw=Car&_kw=Defroster&_kw=Portable&_kw=12v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

similar at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Roadpro-12V-Heater-Swing-out-Handle/dp/B000IXTGHW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is a 160w unit, looks nice:
http://www.safehomeproducts.com/shp2/product/koolatron-portable-electric-auto-heater-12-volt/heater-accessories/159225/159225.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a 100w unit with a suction cup, looks tiny:
http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/CAF-9303CA-BCS/Fairview+Windshield+Defogger.html%20?utm_source=feed&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=nexttag&gdftrk=gdfV22933_a_7c742_a_7c2312_a_7cCAF_d_9303CA_d_BCS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

Ok...

What happens if you turn the AC on, set the thermostat above ambient temp, select defrost mode, and turn up the fan?

Does it do anything to de-fog the windshield?

And I was ridiculed on this forum last year when I said I would carry a 12 Volt plug-in defroster in my LEAF during the winter...

How much? Do you have a link

How much. Shop you have Link

On sale now, at your local Chinese goods emporium:

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-rubberized-heater-with-fan-96144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It did work, OK as a hand warmer, and when placed on top of the dash, it did help to defog the windshield on my (bypassed-the-leaky-heater-core) ICEV over the last 2 winters, before I scrapped the car.


But I had a functional defroster fan in the ICEV, for it to "assist", which we apparently can't use on the LEAF, without heating the tank. And it still couldn't defog the whole windshield, as I recall. I'll try it in the LEAF on the next rainy day, and see if it does anything.

I expect it's usefulness in the LEAF would be minimal. There are 12 volt higher amp alternatives available, that you could install (but not by plugging into the lighter outlet!) that might actually be useful for a quick defog-only option.

IMO, the only simple solution, is to accept a considerably shorter cold weather range.

Batteries are a very inefficient way to store thermal energy.

I plan to pre-heat the car from the wall, and maybe stick a hot-water bottle down my pants, to complete the "Costanza" ensemble...

 

[kmp647]

I am picking out my huge maroon Michelin man parka right now!

Can someone post a pic of George's parka from Seinfeld?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ok...

What happens if you turn the AC on, set the thermostat above ambient temp, select defrost mode, and turn up the fan?

Does it do anything to de-fog the windshield?

And I was ridiculed on this forum last year when I said I would carry a 12 Volt plug-in defroster in my LEAF during the winter...

How much? Do you have a link

How much. Shop you have Link

On sale now, at your local Chinese goods emporium:

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-rubberized-heater-with-fan-96144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It did work, OK as a hand warmer, and when placed on top of the dash, it did help to defog the windshield on my (bypassed-the-leaky-heater-core) ICEV over the last 2 winters, before I scrapped the car.


But I had a functional defroster fan in the ICEV, for it to "assist", which we apparently can't use on the LEAF, without heating the tank. And it still couldn't defog the whole windshield, as I recall. I'll try it in the LEAF on the next rainy day, and see if it does anything.

I expect it's usefulness in the LEAF would be minimal. There are 12 volt higher amp alternatives available, that you could install (but not by plugging into the lighter outlet!) that might actually be useful for a quick defog-only option.

IMO, the only simple solution, is to accept a considerably shorter cold weather range.

Batteries are a very inefficient way to store thermal energy.

I plan to pre-heat the car from the wall, and maybe stick a hot-water bottle down my pants, to complete with the "Costanza" ensemble...

$9? how could anyone not be buying one?? will pick up one at my local HF today

 

[jkirkebo]

IMO, the only simple solution, is to accept a considerably shorter cold weather range.

Batteries are a very inefficient way to store thermal energy.

Unless the energy goes to a heat pump instead of a resistive heater. I consider the lack of a heat pump in the Leaf the cars biggest shortcoming and something I seriously hope they'll fix in the next version (2015 ?).

With a heat pump, 5kW output would probably consume only 1.5kW input.

 

[AP1]

Is the Climate system controlled by its own computer? I wonder if a firmware update could allow to turn the heater off, or at the very least drop the minimum temperature bellow 60.

 

[Volusiano]

I consider the lack of a heat pump in the Leaf the cars biggest shortcoming and something I seriously hope they'll fix in the next version (2015 ?).

With a heat pump, 5kW output would probably consume only 1.5kW input.

Heat pump may work for mildly cold weather where there's still enough heat in the air to extract from. But for severe cold weather, I don't see how effective a heat pump can be.

In AZ, my home's AC system is actually a heat pump that can work in reverse in the winter time to heat up the home. But only to a certain degree. When the temperature reaches near freezing point, the heat pump is no longer efficient and it's automatically turned off and resistive elements are turned on instead to heat the home.

 

[planet4ever]

With a heat pump, 5kW output would probably consume only 1.5kW input.

Wow! That sounds like a fantastic way to increase the total amount of energy in the universe. If everyone had one of those, no one would ever have to burn gasoline, or natural gas, or coal again.

Ray