Disappointing results!

[TimLee]

...
Would it be your best guess that major improvements are to be made in warm weather?
... The focus just seemed so much better for range at least in the cool days of winter.

Really unfortunate that so much unrealistic range information got spread by Nissan about the LEAF. And that some mostly ones with brand new LEAFs keep spreading unrealistic long term numbers.

As I have been stating for nearly three years, now having driven a 2011 LEAF four and a half years:

The 2011 LEAF is nominally a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle for most people. (64 to 97 km)
But in cold weather and with a capacity bar gone it is a 30 to 35 mile range vehicle if you like heat. (48 to 56 km)

Not sure why you expected a used LEAF to be better than Focus EV :?:
Focus EV is 23 kWh pack versus 24 kWh in LEAF.
Nearly the same.
But LEAF has clearly demonstrated capacity losses, some of that is the cause of your dissatisfaction with the used LEAF.

Sorry for your dissatisfaction.
EV buyers have to tune out a lot of really bad range information that some have propagated.

 

[evnow]

The 2011 LEAF is nominally a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle for most people. (64 to 97 km)
But in cold weather and with a capacity bar gone it is a 30 to 35 mile range vehicle if you like heat. (48 to 56 km)

I easily got 100 miles in summer and about 60 in winter. About the same I get now in my '13. The fact that some get less than this doesn't make their number more "real" than my numbers. (I hate that arbitrary "real world" numbers people put out - as if their world is the only "real world").

The reality is - the range varies greatly.

 

[cheapride]

Plan is to get the leaf spy along with a few other recommendations from the forum and see if I can turn this thing around! I don't mean to be a complainer but no matter what I read the leaf is supposed to do better than my electric focus back to back any time any place, I would expect the electric focus has all the same battery draining heaters and devices as the leaf only real difference I can see is the focus is almost 800 pounds heavier. It has the same job to do I just switched vehicles
It's enjoyable to drive and well balanced so will try draining it lower to see what's left at the bottom hopefully it will prove to be better.

 

[TimLee]

The reality is - the range varies greatly.

I agree.
Like most things it is a distribution curve.
The nominal range I gave is a more typical long term value for the median part of the curve.
Even the OP acknowledged having seen range numbers all over the place.

But somehow OP thought a 2012 used LEAF was going to be better than Focus Electric.
Not a realistic conclusion from a review of the data.

 

[TimLee]

Plan is to get the leaf spy along with a few other recommendations from the forum and see if I can turn this thing around! ...

Good plan.
LEAF Distance To Empty is awful.
Focus EV may be better.

Everyone with a LEAF needs something useful like LEAF Spy Pro.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

The LEAF has roughly the same range as the Focus EV. Focus is rated 76 miles vs 84 for LEAF by the EPA. Not sure what would have given the impression that the LEAF is significantly better.

Battery degradation is the huge problem with the LEAF giving it and potentially all EVs a bad name. Degradation is HUGE on the 2011/2012 LEAFs. There was a class action lawsuit that is still going on years later. Nissan reluctantly added a capacity warranty but it requires losing 4 bars of capacity (down to about 66%) within 5 years or 60,000 miles. In practice thats a very large amount of capacity loss. A new battery costs around $5500 US.

2013 LEAF battery chemistry is different and somewhat better but it can still lose bars. 2015 is better but can still lose bars.

Sounds like this LEAF may not meet your range needs. Given your northern location, you may not lose enough bars quickly enough to get a new battery. Hopefully you got a good deal and can resell.

BTW, starting with 2013 SV + quick charge option, you get a 6.6 kw charger and a heat pump for heat which is much more efficient. Heated seats also require much less power than heating the whole cabin.

 

[cheapride]

So without the leaf spy you have no real way of knowing when slow mode would cut in based on the performance of the meter correct?
After slow mode cuts in (the turtle) how far will it let you go on average before it is dead?

 

[GerryAZ]

So without the leaf spy you have no real way of knowing when slow mode would cut in based on the performance of the meter correct?
After slow mode cuts in (the turtle) how far will it let you go on average before it is dead?

The only indication on the dash before the Turtle light is the circles that indicate power use will become single circles (instead of double) starting from the far right and progressing to the left. This happens very quickly so there is not much more advance warning. My 2011 (2012 should be the same) would only go a quarter of a mile (at most) in Turtle mode. The 2015 will go further after very low battery warning (--- on DTE or GOM) than the 2011 and will go at least one half mile (probably more) in Turtle. After the P3227 software update, the 2011 would go 10 or 12 miles after the low battery warning (including 3 to 5 miles after very low battery warning). Before the P3227 software update, it would go almost 20 miles on the highway after low battery warning. The software update really improved the accuracy of the SOC bars, the DTE (or GOM), and the battery information read from the CAN bus by Leaf Spy so I recommend that you check with Nissan to see if the P3227 update has been applied to your car.

Regarding range, I was able to make my 52-mile round trip commute with normal A/C use when the 2011 had lost 4 capacity bars for a while before the battery was replaced. On their other hand, I had to really watch the heater/defrost use even before losing capacity bars. I keep the tires inflated to 44 psi for improved handling, traction, and range.

The EPA range rating of the 2011 was 73 miles and it is 84 miles for the 2015--probably due to more aggressive regeneration on the 2015. I think the first model year Ford Focus had an EPA range rating of 76 miles.

Gerry

 

[GRA]

One reason the Focus may have worked better for the OP (assuming that both cars have similar battery degradation, and that's not clear) is that IIRR the Focus has a liquid-cooled and heated battery, while the LEAF's battery heater only works to prevent battery freezing rather than bringing it up to a comfortable temp, so the LEAF would lose more capacity in cold weather.

 

[TimLee]

So without the leaf spy you have no real way of knowing when slow mode would cut in based on the performance of the meter correct?
After slow mode cuts in (the turtle) how far will it let you go on average before it is dead?

In my 2011 that has three missing capacity bars and has not had P3227 software change, Turtle happens with 0.4 kWh Remaining and Pack Disconnect happens at 0.3 kWh remaining.
You do not go very far on 0.1 kWh.

But about a year ago when I Turtled on the steep hill about 800 road feet from my garage and with 150 feet of elevation to climb, I did make it into the garage.
But I was very careful. Just barely gave it enough power to climb the hill at less than 5 mph.
Probably using only 5 to 10 kW of power.
Had I pushed to the Turtle 20 kW limit, it would have died on the hill.

 

[cwerdna]

The LEAF has roughly the same range as the Focus EV. Focus is rated 76 miles vs 84 for LEAF by the EPA. Not sure what would have given the impression that the LEAF is significantly better.

For the '11 and '12 Leaf, EPA range rating was 73 miles. For the FFE, it was 76.

For '13 Leaf, it became 75... err.. 84 at full charge and for '14 - '15, it became 84 because the 80% charge setting went away on US Leafs.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32154&id=33558&id=32278&id=34699
http://insideevs.com/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-old-system/
http://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/

And yes, a '12 Leaf w/battery degradation won't achieve 73 miles anymore.

BTW, since most of us are in the US and metric units don't mean much to us and the OP's in Canada, Google makes for a quick and easy unit converter. Just Google for stuff like these:
85 km in miles
8 c in f
100 kph in mph
10000 furlongs per fortnight in miles per hour

 

[RonDawg]

I would expect the electric focus has all the same battery draining heaters and devices as the leaf only real difference I can see is the focus is almost 800 pounds heavier.

The Ford Focus Electric I believe uses a heat pump type heater so its cold weather range isn't as affected by heater usage as your Leaf's would.

The FFE also has a liquid cooled and heated battery to reduce heat-related degradation and also reduce cold-related temporary capacity loss (cold batteries don't hold a charge as well as warm ones do). The Leaf has only passive cooling and the battery heater only comes on at a low temperature so as to prevent permanent damage from extreme cold.

While the Leaf does some things better than the FFE, because of cost-cutting it also has its distinct disadvantages as well. You're running head-first into one of them.

 

[knightmb]

Driving a Leaf in very cold weather without a heat pump, the first mod is a must.

Leaf Air Dam for Winter Time Vehicles with no Heat Pump

And for the rest with or without heat pumps, this will save a lot of energy in the winter time and keep windows from getting foggy.

Leaf Air Dam for Outside / Re-circulation for Vehicle Cabin

It won't fix your capacity issues, but at least you can squeeze the most range out of what you already have.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You should also try to insulate all of the coolant/"heatant" pipes in the motor compartment, as has been done by others here. If your Leaf has seat heaters, use them and lower the thermostat. If not, aftermarket heated cushions are much better than no seat heat at all.

 

[cwerdna]

You should also try to insulate all of the coolant/"heatant" pipes in the motor compartment, as has been done by others here. If your Leaf has seat heaters, use them and lower the thermostat. If not, aftermarket heated cushions are much better than no seat heat at all.

Yep.

I quickly found http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=15392 re: insulating the heater pipes.

 

[cwerdna]

Sounds like this LEAF may not meet your range needs. Given your northern location, you may not lose enough bars quickly enough to get a new battery. Hopefully you got a good deal and can resell.

If the weather's similar to the Seattle area (lived there for ~9 years) or even colder I find it very unlikely they will lose enough bars to qualify for a warranty replacement.

BTW, starting with 2013 SV + quick charge option, you get a 6.6 kwh charger and a heat pump for heat which is much more efficient. Heated seats also require much less power than heating the whole cabin.

It's kW, not kWh.

Canadian trim levels are different than the US. From specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-CA/nissan/canada/presskits/ca-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit, even the 2013 S comes w/6.6 kW OBC but can't have CHAdeMO (different than the US). One has to go SV and SL to get hybrid heater, just like US.

 

[cheapride]

Well all good tips and coment, I have been trying a few and seems a bit better range is being seen. The tires were on the low side so brought those up, have been allowing it to run much lower before charging and taking the slow roads whenever possible. The climate control needs to be used just no way around that, not really cold here in the winter with Temps 45-50f average lots of rain and almost never see snow but need to keep the steam off the windows.
The car was brought from Washington so has the winter package with heated seats ect and make good use of that and will try to get to Nissan for a check up to confirm all updates in software have been performed.

So now I have noticed an Interesting point when I run to a low charge according to the guessing gauge aprox 5 miles remaining when I plug into the fast charge it says charge level at 20% . That is a lot of juice at the bottom end not being properly reported but I am a bit unnerved to go much lower to see if it would in fact continue to drive for another 10 or 15 miles. So the point made that a lot of range might be hidden is certainly possible! What happens when the guessing gauge hits 0 and bars are gone? Will it keep going until that reserve is used then go into turtle mode and then die? Will running it into this hidden power perhaps make the guessing Guage become more accurate as it calculates your driving habbits?

 

[TimLee]

...What happens when the guessing gauge hits 0 and bars are gone? Will it keep going until that reserve is used then go into turtle mode and then die? Will running it into this hidden power perhaps make the guessing Guage become more accurate as it calculates your driving habbits?

When the vehicle hits Very Low Battery warning at 24 GIDs, DTE changes to three dashes.
Depending on capacity degradation and whether you have the P3227 software that probably will happen with something like two to six miles showing.
Will definitely happen before zero.

After that it will run till Turtle at 0.4 kWh remaining when power will be limited to 20 kW.

Soon thereafter the pack will disconnect at 0.3 kWh remaining leaving you dead unable to move the vehicle wherever it is.
The 12V will be left working though, so it will proceed to die over the next hour.
LEAF even with pack disconnected pulls a pretty good 12V load.

You will not be able to restart the LEAF till you charge it up quite a bit.
Don't recall exactly how much, may be above VLBW but may be a bit higher something like 35 or 40 GIDs.

If you let the 12V go to less than about 10.5 Volts, you will not be able to start the LEAF charging unless you jump it off with a good 12V battery.

I don't think cycling it low helps DTE at all.
What cycling low and then charging back to 100% occasionally does is help be able to get a bit more range.
Doing only charging from 30% to 80% tends to leave maybe 0.3 to 0.5 kWh missing in action.