Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

[EvansvilleLeaf]

I tested my Leaf (leased in August 2013) last week after picking up an Android phone... I was surprised I've lost as much capacity as I have considering I'm in Portland, OR.

12.5k mi / 58.5 Ah / SOH 89% / Hx 77.64%

I have had the car since 2/12 but have similar miles in slightly warmer S. Indiana and have similar readings from the Lite app with the exception of less difference between soh and hx.

11k miles 57.37 AHr SOH 87% Hx 84.53%

 

[gsleaf]

Oops. I leased it in 2012 not 2013. Whoops. So I've had it about 15 months.

 

[mwalsh]

6/22: AHr=54.07 CAP=81.61%
6/24: AHr=54.01 CAP=81.52%
6/25: AHr=54.12 CAP=81.68%
7/11: AHr=53.16 CAP=80.23%
7/12: AHr=53.30 CAP=80.45% Hlth=76.57%
8/26: AHr=52.54 CAP=79.30% Hlth=75.16%
9/11: AHr=51.49 CAP=78.49% Hlth=73.22%
10/2: AHr=51.81 CAP=78.98% Hlth=73.82%
10/8: AHr=51.58 CAP=78.63% Hlth=73.39%
10/23: AHr=52.12 CAP=79.51% Hlth=74.46%
11/5: AHr=52.68 CAP=80.31% Hlth=75.43%
11/12: AHr=52.47 CAP=79.98% Hlth=74.80%
11/22: AHr=52.74 CAP=80.40% Hlth=75.53% (or whatever we're calling Hlth these days).

I wouldn't normally do readings this close together, but I had an abnormally high Gidometer reading (222 Gids) this morning, so I thought I would:

11/25: AHr=52.89 CAP=80.63% Hlth=75.81%

 

[LEAFfan]

My AHs have been going up and down since the cooler weather. In the middle of summer, it was 55.6. Then it was 57.1 OCT 1. On NOV 1, it went down to 56.2, and now it's at 55.8.

 

[keydiver]

It seems odd to me that people are discussing the vagaries of firmware known to give an inaccurate reading of the Leaf battery capacity. Why not get the P3227 update (includes compatibility fixes for some EVSE) and discuss the more accurate readings?

Would this explain the 66.6% health I saw this morning on another 2012 Leaf? Although this gentleman only has 8000 miles on his 2012, he is also already missing one bar. But, he has had the P3227 update, and I have not. My health reads >80%, but his is only 66.6%. I'm still running v0.26c of the Leaf Battery App, and haven't moved over to Leaf Spy yet.
BTW, he has never seen another Leaf owner, and there were THREE of us at IHOP this morning, purely by coincidence. I almost got into another Pearl.

 

[RegGuheert]

Reported capacity is still not moving around much (pre-P3227), as I expect. AHr had approached 60 during November, but it has since retreated back to where it was previously.

09/28: Odo=13,877 AHr=59.18 CAP=90.21% Hlth=87.89% SOC=90.2% Vbat=4.097 Temp=77.7F
10/22: Odo=14,515 AHr=59.39 CAP=90.53% Hlth=88.31% SOC=33.1% Vbat=3.838 Temp=63.1F
10/24: Odo=14,515 AHr=59.39 CAP=90.53% Hlth=88.31% SOC=94.0% Vbat=4.100 Temp=51.6F
10/25: Odo=14,595 AHr=59.47 CAP=90.66% Hlth=88.46% SOC=17.9% Vbat=3.735 Temp=53.0F
10/27: Odo=14,636 AHr=59.36 CAP=90.49% Hlth=88.09% SOC=39.2% Vbat=3.843 Temp=53.8F
10/30: Odo=14,705 AHr=59.18 CAP=90.21% Hlth=87.91% SOC=35.4% Vbat=3.850 Temp=62.9F
11/07: Odo=14,951 AHr=59.35 CAP=90.47% Hlth=88.50% SOC=43.4% Vbat=3.846 Temp=64.9F
12/03: Odo=15,320 AHr=59.46 CAP=90.64% Hlth=88.34% SOC=50.6% Vbat=3.878 Temp=50.7F

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

on my concerns that my ahr and health had not changed since the last update;

well, without doing anything different mostly because everything you advised i was already doing. i guess my pack was simply super stable for two weeks because its now gone back to changing and its really all over the place.

remember i was stuck at 57.06 and 74.04 for 13 days? (6 days was during time i was in Japan and car was not driven but stats were maintained for 4 days after my return) well the other day it moved finally

and went to

56.90
56.73
56.55 whoa I was thinking! whats going on!!

then it was parked about 2 days (holidays and one trip in the gasser) and i get back in and its

57.10
57.14
and this morning its 57.26 highest ahr i have seen in WEEKS!!

so not on topic but just wondering is anyone else seeing higher readings after the update?

 

[Berlino]

on my concerns that my ahr and health had not changed since the last update;

...

so not on topic but just wondering is anyone else seeing higher readings after the update?

You're apparently talking about a slightly earlier update, but after no change for a month, my AHr and Hx readings jumped dramatically Wednesday. Since then, they've moved slightly each day as one might expect.


Tuesday: AHr: 61.40 SOH: 93% Hx: 94.59%

Friday: Well, a picture is worth a 1,000 words.

 

[jguenst]

what update are you referring to ?

on my concerns that my ahr and health had not changed since the last update;



so not on topic but just wondering is anyone else seeing higher readings after the update?

You're apparently talking about a slightly earlier update, but after no change for a month, my AHr and Hx readings jumped dramatically Wednesday. Since then, they've moved slightly each day as one might expect.


Tuesday: AHr: 61.40 SOH: 93% Hx: 94.59%

Friday: Well, a picture is worth a 1,000 words.

 

[Berlino]

what update are you referring to ?

An update to the LEAF Battery app software, but I haven't checked the version number. I remember my device saying it was auto-downloading an update Wednesday or so, then perhaps even another update Thursday. Showing Version 29.17 now.

 

[TickTock]

It seems odd to me that people are discussing the vagaries of firmware known to give an inaccurate reading of the Leaf battery capacity. Why not get the P3227 update (includes compatibility fixes for some EVSE) and discuss the more accurate readings?

Would this explain the 66.6% health I saw this morning on another 2012 Leaf? Although this gentleman only has 8000 miles on his 2012, he is also already missing one bar. But, he has had the P3227 update, and I have not. My health reads >80%, but his is only 66.6%. I'm still running v0.26c of the Leaf Battery App, and haven't moved over to Leaf Spy yet.
BTW, he has never seen another Leaf owner, and there were THREE of us at IHOP this morning, purely by coincidence. I almost got into another Pearl.

I don't think this is too out of line. I am starting to warm up to the theory that Hx is related to pack conductance. From what data I've gathered, it appears 100% corresponds to ~18 mhos (55 mOhms). If so, then my Leaf, which was seeing 14.4 mhos (70 mOhms) 5 months after purchase (Oct'11) would have been at 80% Hx at that time. Presently, I am at 48.4 Hx which would correspond to 8.7mhos (115mOhms) which is close to what I am measuring now. I would point out that this increase in pack resistance will have almost no impact on the performance of the car since it was so low to start with and speed and torque is computer limited long before the voltage droop of the battery can impact it. This is why, even at the beginning, Nissan had no problems guaranteeing "no loss of power."

 

[jguenst]

what update are you referring to ?

on my concerns that my ahr and health had not changed since the last update;



so not on topic but just wondering is anyone else seeing higher readings after the update?

You're apparently talking about a slightly earlier update, but after no change for a month, my AHr and Hx readings jumped dramatically Wednesday. Since then, they've moved slightly each day as one might expect.


Tuesday: AHr: 61.40 SOH: 93% Hx: 94.59%

Friday: Well, a picture is worth a 1,000 words.

no change yet

AHr 58.45 SOH 89 Hx 88.63

Odo 3169 2QC's 227 L1/L2

 

[RegGuheert]

You're apparently talking about a slightly earlier update, but after no change for a month, my AHr and Hx readings jumped dramatically Wednesday. Since then, they've moved slightly each day as one might expect.


Tuesday: AHr: 61.40 SOH: 93% Hx: 94.59%

Friday: Well, a picture is worth a 1,000 words.

I'm not sure I am following this discussion. Do you think this an indication that the battery controller is now reporting a number closer to your actual capacity or do you think it is merely a change in how the app interprets the readings?

 

[ttweed]

I did the P3227 update right after I lost the first bar & got reset all the way up to 59+ Ahr. I'm still waiting to settle back to 54 Ahr (pre-update). i'm now at 57 Ahr after less than a week since the update.

I started logging my readings from the LBA shortly after the loss of my first bar in June, and had the update applied on 8/19/13. My AHr reading jumped from 54.03 to 58.53 that day while the Hx value dropped 1%, and since then, both numbers have been dropping consistently--rather rapidly for the first week and then leveling off to a steady decline. There has only been an increase in CAP% or Hx between readings on a couple of occasions, never amounting to more than .3, and then continuing to slide downward. Battery temps have always been moderate--never below 60F and never above 90F. I saw 4 temp bars for the first time ever this morning (during what passes for a cold snap around here), and I have never seen 7 bars. As far as I can tell, I am about to lose the second capacity bar any day now, with my AHr readings dropping into the high 51s for the first time.

Here's a table of my readings:

TT

 

[GregH]

I am starting to warm up to the theory that Hx is related to pack conductance. From what data I've gathered, it appears 100% corresponds to ~18 mhos (55 mOhms). If so, then my Leaf, which was seeing 14.4 mhos (70 mOhms) 5 months after purchase (Oct'11) would have been at 80% Hx at that time. Presently, I am at 48.4 Hx which would correspond to 8.7mhos (115mOhms) which is close to what I am measuring now. I would point out that this increase in pack resistance will have almost no impact on the performance of the car since it was so low to start with and speed and torque is computer limited long before the voltage droop of the battery can impact it. This is why, even at the beginning, Nissan had no problems guaranteeing "no loss of power."

Hmmm.. If Hx is related to impedance/conductance then it must be a normalized number over temperature and SOC as impedance varies by temperature and SOC.. but especially temperature. My Leaf is about 100mOhm at 23-25C but closer to 120mOhm at 16-18C. Also I would note that increased impedance (be it due to age or cold temps) will slow your DCQC as it will taper sooner Other than that, yeah no real change in performance.. perhaps a tad less efficient though.

 

[linkim]

I started logging my readings from the LBA shortly after the loss of my first bar in June, and had the update applied on 8/19/13. My AHr reading jumped from 54.03 to 58.53 that day while the Hx value dropped 1%, and since then, both numbers have been dropping consistently--rather rapidly for the first week and then leveling off to a steady decline. There has only been an increase in CAP% or Hx between readings on a couple of occasions, never amounting to more than .3, and then continuing to slide downward. Battery temps have always been moderate--never below 60F and never above 90F. I saw 4 temp bars for the first time ever this morning (during what passes for a cold snap around here), and I have never seen 7 bars. As far as I can tell, I am about to lose the second capacity bar any day now, with my AHr readings dropping into the high 51s for the first time.

I am also seeing a downward trend in the Ah capacity, as read by Leaf Battery App, since my update on Oct. 6. Here are some results:

10/6-before update 60.91 Ah
10/7-after update 62.75 Ah (value went up for a short time, then started downward trend)
10/13- 60.97 Ah
11/6- 57.92 Ah
12/8- 56.87 Ah

My 2011 LEAF (April 2011 purchase) has close to 17K miles and it has never seen 7 BATT bars. I have never recorded a battery temperature above 90F during the summer. No loss in capacity bars but I can only charge to about 200 gids at 80%.

 

[GregH]

I started logging my readings from the LBA shortly after the loss of my first bar in June, and had the update applied on 8/19/13. My AHr reading jumped from 54.03 to 58.53 that day while the Hx value dropped 1%, and since then, both numbers have been dropping consistently--rather rapidly for the first week and then leveling off to a steady decline. There has only been an increase in CAP% or Hx between readings on a couple of occasions, never amounting to more than .3, and then continuing to slide downward. Battery temps have always been moderate--never below 60F and never above 90F. I saw 4 temp bars for the first time ever this morning (during what passes for a cold snap around here), and I have never seen 7 bars. As far as I can tell, I am about to lose the second capacity bar any day now, with my AHr readings dropping into the high 51s for the first time.

I am also seeing a downward trend in the Ah capacity, as read by Leaf Battery App, since my update on Oct. 6. Here are some results:

10/6-before update 60.91 Ah
10/7-after update 62.75 Ah (value went up for a short time, then started downward trend)
10/13- 60.97 Ah
11/6- 57.92 Ah
12/8- 56.87 Ah

My 2011 LEAF (April 2011 purchase) has close to 17K miles and it has never seen 7 BATT bars. I have never recorded a battery temperature above 90F during the summer. No loss in capacity bars but I can only charge to about 200 gids at 80%.

I just got the update a few days ago and am seeing a similar trend.
Before the update the capacity had been creeping up from 59Ah (early October) to 61Ah in the cool weather. After the update it jumped 2Ah but in the days since has been working its way back down towards 61Ah.

 

[Weatherman]

Still falling:

July 11th: 57.45 Ahr
Aug 12th: 56.30 Ahr
Sept 10th: 55.46 Ahr
Oct 23rd: 54.61 Ahr
Nov 4th: 54.26 Ahr
Dec 10th: 53.86 Ahr

Down 6.25% in just the past five months, and still falling. Florida is about the only place in the continental U.S. where it's still summer. Battery temps were in the mid and upper 80s after the charge this evening.

 

[Berlino]

I'm not sure I am following this discussion. Do you think this an indication that the battery controller is now reporting a number closer to your actual capacity or do you think it is merely a change in how the app interprets the readings?

I don't know what to think. I was hoping somebody else would. Besides the sudden jumps in AHr, SOH, and Hx, I am now getting 227/284 for 80%/100% charges as compared to 213/267 just last week.

I did notice, however, that my SOC was 24% at LBW Friday. I had been accustomed to it being in the 25.9%-27.9% range, so maybe I've lost some capacity at the bottom end to compensate for newly found Gids at the top.

 

[UkrainianKozak]

Can someone explain to me what is SOC vs battery health percentage?
I have 86% as reported in battery health, 238 GIDs, and 95% SOC when charged to full.
If I assume 281 GIDs as max, it'll give me 84% of all gids, but yet health is higher, but what is reported SOC? If it max that battery can take now, why is it not 100%?