Drained it –One Leaf Owner's Experience

[EVDRIVER]

I think range has much to do with driving skill. I did over 90 miles to Healdsberg at 60 on some uphill and still had room. Foot position is everything, one can go 3 more MPH and use almost 2X the power at times.

 

[Clippy]

I have to say that I am disappointed. I realize that I was not a single occupant, and that I didn’t drive 55 (I didn’t go 70 either) and 280 is somewhat hilly, but 80 miles does not seem like an unreasonable expectation. Then there is the stress. Since getting the Leaf, my daughter has been telling my wife that her car is old, and how much she likes my car. Driving the last 10 miles she wanted my wife to hold her hand and was saying how she hated daddy’s car. I hope getting to steer it for that block or so, may have improved her spirits.

Since driving my Leaf home last Thursday, it's been driven 21 miles. While I don't regret buying it (because I have yet to start the A/C), stories such as your make me realize that this vehicle is best suited for urban, city streets or open country, back roads driving. I had made that decision prior to reading your post, but this just reinforces it. I currently show 87 miles in ECO range and I'm taking a 50 mile R/T tomorrow. I plan to use back roads only. Which, in any part of urban California can be either extremely time consuming, life threatening or an unpleasant combination of both.

Thanks for sharing you story. I really sort of feel sorry for the folks out there that thought this vehicle was going to change their life and the planet was going to be saved, et cetera. But all I bought the thing for was to run around town. Now it appears you must have the right sort of town, terrain-wise. For me, tomorrow's test is the at the far end of the range I had planned for the vehicle. And I'm ready to bail at the first sign of trouble.

I managed to get all 112 ECO miles out of my first "tank." But that was 1/2 freeway done at under 60 MPH (eeek!!!) and 1/2 rolling back roads. If I had to take the route you had to from Frisco to Los Altos, I'm sure I would have had the same results as you, sadly.

 

[Ready2plugin]

Since driving my Leaf home last Thursday, it's been driven 21 miles. While I don't regret buying it (because I have yet to start the A/C), stories such as your make me realize that this vehicle is best suited for urban, city streets or open country, back roads driving. I had made that decision prior to reading your post, but this just reinforces it. I currently show 87 miles in ECO range and I'm taking a 50 mile R/T tomorrow. I plan to use back roads only. Which, in any part of urban California can be either extremely time consuming, life threatening or an unpleasant combination of both.

Please don't make someone's one drive stop anyone from doing a 50 mile round trip with the LEAF. I have a 60 mile round trip - mainly freeway - commute with no problems what so ever. I have not pulled into my garage without at least 30 miles range showing on the estimator. I drive ECO, do the speed limit 65 - and do not alter the roads I drive for the car.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
My longest run was 76 miles. I purposely took the flattest shortest route but even then 50% of it was at 55 mph, the return trip was at night with occasional defrost to clear the windows, 40* raining & 4 people in the car. I arrived home with 3 bars and 18 miles est. range. After the experience I realized I could have done better, timed the lights for less stop and go. I'm still learning the methods of this new paradigm. My wife just wants to drive it "normal" and her hand smacks her forehead when I mention why I'm driving the route and the way I am. I routinely use 40% less power on the same errand (like taking my mother in law home) staying off the freeway and driving easy, takes me longer though.

 

[friendnumber1]

Yeah clippy, don't panic. Just keep your speed down, keep it in Eco, and hell, why not charge it up overnight for that matter before your trip?

Just be mindful, don't panic.

I am disappointed, but I am not going to junk the thing. I wish I could drive 100 miles round trip on the highway. 100 miles range in the city I think is no problem, on the open non-flat road, 75 is a better number.

FYI, my commute is 15 miles round trip, and I have access to L2 charging at work. That is a big reason that I bought the car.

 

[ENIAC]

Hello,
My longest run was 76 miles. I purposely took the flattest shortest route but even then 50% of it was at 55 mph, the return trip was at night with occasional defrost to clear the windows, 40* raining & 4 people in the car. I arrived home with 3 bars and 18 miles est. range. After the experience I realized I could have done better, timed the lights for less stop and go. I'm still learning the methods of this new paradigm. My wife just wants to drive it "normal" and her hand smacks her forehead when I mention why I'm driving the route and the way I am. I routinely use 40% less power on the same errand (like taking my mother in law home) staying off the freeway and driving easy, takes me longer though.

I agree, I've improved my efficiency a little at a time through experience. One thing I do when I have a long trip (80 miles+) planned is to start off ultra conservative. I'll keep the mph down (hide behind the semi's stunt) and not run the CC. But as I'm getting closer to my destination, if I've calculated I've got a comfortable charge remaining, then the CC comes on and the speeds increase.

 

[Clippy]

Yeah clippy, don't panic. Just keep your speed down, keep it in Eco, and hell, why not charge it up overnight for that matter before your trip?

Oh, no panic here. And I believe that charging when you are at more than 60% charge is a violation of that thick "Battery" agreement I was forced to sign and a copy of which I was not provided (Plus, it'd ruin the fun).

I'm actually rather looking forward to finding alternate routes to places. Learning how to decipher the local Gang's "tag's" while stopped at a light in a questionable part of Saca-menno, CA is strangely appealing to me.

 

[TRONZ]

Why do some people run out LEAFs and then imply that somehow the car did it? :roll:

Is it possible for moderators to merge any "run dry" stories into a single thread topic since these were/will all be caused by irresponsible choices of the driver? I mean, Duuuuuhhhhh!

 

[friendnumber1]

Why do some people infer, and then say that some other person implied something that they did not?

Perhaps these people only read the headlines.

I never said or implied that the car was at fault. At most, I said that I was disappointed. That describes my feelings about the situation.

The fact is that I could have prepared better to use the L1 charger, or to seek out a remote L2 charging dock, I suppose I could have turned off the radio, and only drove 55.

I was just on the edge of getting home. Unfortunately for me, it was on the wrong side of that edge, but no biggie, it was just two blocks of pushing.

I posted this to inform others, and perhaps to caution them to be prepared, or informed, or whatever.

Then again, I guess I did say go ahead and flame me, I can't stop you.

 

[cdub]

Oh, no panic here. And I believe that charging when you are at more than 60% charge is a violation of that thick "Battery" agreement I was forced to sign and a copy of which I was not provided.

Oh come on that's FUD. You aren't supposed to charge if its at 100.

 

[TRONZ]

Why do people infer, and then say imply?

Perhaps these people only read the headlines.

They're trashing you on the other thread friend.

 

[friendnumber1]

Flame on!

 

[DaveEV]

I never said or implied that the car was at fault. At most, I said that I was disappointed. That describes my feelings about the situation.

I think it was pretty clear that you fully expected the LEAF to make it 80 miles on the freeway at speeds between 60-65 mph on rolling hills with room to spare. Instead you ended up short a couple blocks short.

I posted this to inform others, and perhaps to caution them to be prepared, or informed, or whatever.

I do think it was a good reminder of how one should plan their trips. Definitely even 30 minutes of L1 would have gotten you all the way home - but realistically you needed ~3 hours of L1 or ~1 hour of L2 to make it comfortably driving the same way. Or you needed to keep speeds down to 60 mph max. Not necessarily easiest thing to do comfortably on the 280.

 

[leafme]

I now have a firm figure on my expected driving range from a 100% charge, and that figure is not 100 miles, not 90 miles, and not even 80 miles.

After 2,600 San Diego climate miles (January 4th through today) at 90+% on the freeway, I can say... for freeway driving at 68 mph... do not plan on more than 70 miles range. 65 is a better number to plan on to eliminate the range anxiety. In the rain with wipers and headlights?... a bit less.

Malcolm

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

**warning to OP**

you are not going to like my post. if you have thin skin. stop reading now. what i say is not really that important or worth increasing your blood pressure


without the family and extra weight, you would have made it. with the family, you made it (extra pushers) so what is the problem?

Sorry but you made SEVERAL mistakes and now you are blaming the car. grow up!!

1)assuming 80 mile range when Nissan CLEARLY outlined several scenarios telling you that u will get less range in certain situations.

2) plugging in your car and not realizing its charging for TWENTY MINUTES!!! what kind of car do you have?? mine tells me within TWO SECONDS whether its charging or not

3)Driving thru one of the most heavily populated areas of the country and not stopping at a Nissan dealer for a boost charge?? sounds like a perfect time to express your concerns

all in all, you are home safely. your daughter is probably pretty pleased at being able to sit in the front seat and steer. Everyone is a bit healthier from the exercise and you learned a lot. i would categorize it as a good day. if you want to complain, lets talk about why we have to buy a product made 4,000 miles away because no one in this country has the balls to do it!!

 

[Stoaty]

What surprises me about this experience (not unique to our friend, by the way) is how many people treat the 100 mile range as some kind of magic number. We have had other people report driving their car home from the dealer at 65-70 MPH and barely making it. Am I the only one who plans to drive 55 MPH in ECO mode until I get the feel for what kind of range I can expect? Would anyone here set out on a 75 mile trip with an ICE car that gets 30 MPG and has just 2.5 gallons of gas in the tank, knowing that it is questionable whether they would be able to get any additional fuel?

Another aspect of this is that the Leaf has unmasked just how much energy we have had access to with gasoline, and how unconcerned we have had to be about our wasteful use of this precious energy resource (I include myself in this group). Before the Leaf, who thought about the fact that going uphill consumes an extra 1.5-2 KWH of electrical energy per 1000 feet elevation gain? Who paid attention to the big difference in energy usage going 65 MPH instead of 55 MPH? Not many, I would say. The Leaf is a paradigm shift in how we think about our use of energy. For myself, I am glad to have the education. Of course, I'm still keeping the Camry for those few long trips that don't fit the abilities of the Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

What surprises me about this experience (not unique to our friend, by the way) is how many people treat the 100 mile range as some kind of magic number.

actually i fully expected this to happen. lets review the history of a parallel universe aka Priuschat.com

here we have posts on people suing Toyota because they ran out of gas thinking they put in 10 gallons of gas, should get 50 mpg, so can go 500 miles despite the fact that the car told them to get gas, the gauge is on empty but since they have only gone 450 miles, they should be able to make it, but did not.

we also have this "why am i only getting 42 mpg? i am only driving 75 mph...." threads.

remove those two types of threads, and PC would save thousands of dollars a year in server rental space!!

 

[Fabio]

I've had the LEAF for about a month and there are trips I usually do in the Bay Area that are out of the Leaf Max Range for sure.
I live in the Mid-Peninsula and have friends in North Berkeley (82m round trip) we visit regularly, when I go there with my family we drive the Prius. Depending on your lifestyle and needs the LEAF may not be the ideal car for the Bay Area.
My own rule is to stay above the last 2 bars in the 12 bar energy gauge.

Your experience does cause me to think twice about completing my Leaf purchase.

The lesson learned is that a typical drive in the Bay Area can easily exceed the Leaf's range.  

Do I really want to deal with the inconvenience of needing to judge the distance of each daily drive? A few level 3 charging stations scattered around the Bay Area would deal with the range anxiety I'm feeling.

Thanks for the sobering reminder.

 

[healy100]

This is long, I know, but bear with me.

I now have a firm figure on my expected driving range from a 100% charge, and that figure is not 100 miles, not 90 miles, and not even 80 miles. I offer this account for the benefit of other drivers. Please don’t reply to offer use of your charging dock, or point out that Boardwalk Nissan has them, or provide any other helpful hints. If you want to flame me, go ahead, I can’t stop you. I am writing this purely to share my experience with other LEAF owners. I am happy to answer polite inquiries.

Last night, I tried to take my family (wife and two small kids, well below 500 pounds total payload including the car seat) on an 80 mile round trip from San Francisco to Los Altos and back. Leaving the house, the dashboard estimated our driving range at 112, and this figure steadily decreased as we headed uphill towards, then along 280. I have about 600 miles on the car, and I have experienced the variable nature of the expected range as you go up and down hills, so I expected my cushion to return after passing 92 or so and heading down towards Los Altos. I kept it in ECO, used the fan, but not A/C and we listened satellite radio, and some from my Ipod. I mostly kept the speed between 60 and 65 on the way down. I did not use cruise control.

Once we arrived in Los Altos, we expected to stay a couple hours so I tried to trickle-charge since our expected range at that point was only 42 miles. Unfortunately, that was first time that I used it, and the plug I used was not grounded properly. It wasn’t until about 20 minutes before we left that I read the manual and then changed outlets. So we only got a negligible bit of extra juice for the ride home.

For the trip back, our friends followed us, and we drove between 55 and 65 for the most part, with no heating or air. We did listen to the radio. Some ways after 92, we were asked if we wanted to search for charging stations, and as we passed the 380 interchange, we got the message that we had an extremely low battery and should look for a charging station immediately. But the range was very close to the distance to our house so we kept going. In Daly City we opted to get off the freeway for safety reasons. The route we chose had negligible effect on distance traveled. Near Lake Merced, our expected range hit the three dashes, and as we approached Great Highway we went into turtle mode.

I suppose if you drive 5 miles an hour, turtle mode might last a while but as it was, it only lasted about a mile for us. We ran out of juice about two blocks from our house. I have read on this board some speculate that you can shut off the car and then restart it and get some short distance of “extra” range. This was not my experience. I was able to get the car into neutral, and my Wife and I pushed the car home with my 8 year old steering. I am very glad that I purchased a 25 foot cord as it allowed me to charge the car with it just into the drive way, and 30 minutes later I could pull it into the garage.

Drove the car to work this morning and it seems none the worse for wear.

I have to say that I am disappointed. I realize that I was not a single occupant, and that I didn’t drive 55 (I didn’t go 70 either) and 280 is somewhat hilly, but 80 miles does not seem like an unreasonable expectation. Then there is the stress. Since getting the Leaf, my daughter has been telling my wife that her car is old, and how much she likes my car. Driving the last 10 miles she wanted my wife to hold her hand and was saying how she hated daddy’s car. I hope getting to steer it for that block or so, may have improved her spirits.

You wont get an argument from me. The simple fact is the 24 kwh battery pack is not sufficient for many real word trips one might expect it to be able to handle. I wont be doing much freeway driving in my LEAF so 24 kwh is fine for my needs but it's becoming apparent that the limited range of the pack is becoming an issue for many. Nissan really needs to work on lowering battery costs to the point they can offer a 35 to 40 kwh pack for the same price as the 24 kwh battery. Most drivers will accept a range of 100 miles if that car has an actual 100 miles of freeway range at freeway speeds. If anything is going to keep EV's from becoming adopted on a mass scale it will be current ranges of the more affordable cars such as the LEAF and Ford Focus,It should be the auto makers top priority to bring battery costs down and increase pack sizes and I think in 3 to 5 years we will see battery costs cut in half. The future looks bright for EV's but us early adopters will be dealing with some of the issues of expensive batteries balanced with keeping a car affordable.

 

[friendnumber1]

To flamin' Dave in Oly:

Like I said in my original post, I wrote it to share my experience with others, not to complain.

I acknowledged making many mistakes, hoping others would take the time to prepare so they could avoid them.

Telling me to to grow up, and stating in all caps how well prepared and informed that you are only serves to show the thinness of your skin, not mine.

Thanks for the warning though.

Some folks less informed and less invested than you, might expect a car advertised to go 100, to be able to go 80 miles in eco when the expected range states that it can go 112 miles when they start it up.

It is better that these folks read my post and take the time to read their owner's manual, before they end up getting stranded two miles rather than 2 blocks from their house.