Drive more than 40 then LEAF may not be perfert for you

[scottf200]

I was scanning the news tonight and ran across this article in our local paper.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sns-rt-us-nissan-leafbre88r1d6-20120928,0,6211997.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan North America spokesman David Reuter

The Leaf is "not for every driver," said Reuter.

"You need to make sure your driving style and driving needs fit the output of the vehicle," he said. "We know that the wide majority of U.S. drivers drive no more than 40 miles a day. The Nissan Leaf is a perfect vehicle for those individuals. For those who drive more than that, [the Nissan LEAF] may not be [for you]."

Nice sales info outside of USA:

Nissan has sold 37,285 Leaf since it was introduced. Of that figure, 17,710 have been sold in Japan; 13,921 in North America; 4,881 in Europe; and 773 in other markets, Nissan said.

 

[jimcmorr]

I've been driving 50 miles and more each day charged to 80% no trouble at all. 54 miles one day with, I think 11 miles left on the GOM. And it is hilly where I drive every day. Seems to blow the 40 mile limit to shreds. JMHO :shock:

 

[gaswalla]

I remember them saying that "most Americans drive less than 60 miles a day" - now that their batteries are found to rot, they say it's 40 miles...

Why wouldn't you buy a volt if that's the case

 

[gaswalla]

I've been driving 50 miles and more each day charged to 80% no trouble at all. 54 miles one day with, I think 11 miles left on the GOM. And it is hilly where I drive every day. Seems to blow the 40 mile limit to shreds. JMHO :shock:

we'll see how easy it is in 2 years...

 

[ericsf]

I think the key words are "perfect" and "may".

What he means is that for someone who does't want to change their driving habits and have nothing to worry about when it comes to range, 40 miles a day is what they believe is a safe limit.

Then, when it comes to statements like "most Americans", it's pointless to argue about those: what does most mean? 80%, 90% or 51%?

 

[thankyouOB]

I've been driving 50 miles and more each day charged to 80% no trouble at all. 54 miles one day with, I think 11 miles left on the GOM. And it is hilly where I drive every day. Seems to blow the 40 mile limit to shreds. JMHO :shock:

me, too.
the same situation. same outrage at the story and the Nissan self-immolation.

 

[ericsf]

I've been driving 50 miles and more each day charged to 80% no trouble at all. 54 miles one day with, I think 11 miles left on the GOM. And it is hilly where I drive every day. Seems to blow the 40 mile limit to shreds. JMHO :shock:

we'll see how easy it is in 2 years...

My LEAF is 1.5 year old and I can do 74 miles round trip on 80%... 28K on the odometer. Ping me in 6 months.

 

[thankyouOB]

I've been driving 50 miles and more each day charged to 80% no trouble at all. 54 miles one day with, I think 11 miles left on the GOM. And it is hilly where I drive every day. Seems to blow the 40 mile limit to shreds. JMHO :shock:

we'll see how easy it is in 2 years...

in two years, it will still be easy.
i do it and have 2 bars and 20 GOM left at 80%.
I will always be able to do it, if I dont try to drive 60-65mph on the freeway portion.

you gotta get into the EV hive. we aint riding on top of a giant exploding-repeating gasoline bomb.

 

[sparky]

I remember them saying that "most Americans drive less than 60 miles a day" - now that their batteries are found to rot, they say it's 40 miles...

Why wouldn't you buy a volt if that's the case

Because about 2 years ago, when it came time for me to RAQ my LEAF, my daily mileage was typical for Americans in my age group (34-54), 37 miles. While that would just fit into the Volt EV range; it easily fit into Nissan's published figures, range for urban driving on a hot day, of 54 miles; 68 mi * 0.8 ( 5yr degradation).

Because at the time, the 3 GM dealers I contacted, all wanted a $1k-$5k markup for a Volt; and Fontana Nissan took $1k off.

Because at this point, 21 mos and almost 19k miles into my LEAF ownership, the car's range is in line with my expectations.

Because, if I had bought the Volt, I'd be no better off as far as EV capability AND have $10k-$12k less money to put towards a Model S.

I like the Volt, still glad I didn't buy one.

 

[caffeinekid]

Let's just say that if Nissan had started out pitching the Leaf as a 70 mile vehicle with all of the caveats regarding charging, ambient temps, low speeds, etc......in other words had they been much more honest, the issues and subsequent back peddling and PR greasing would not have been necessary. Of course, they would not have sold as many either.

 

[scottf200]

Because, if I had bought the Volt, I'd be no better off as far as EV capability AND have $10k-$12k less money to put towards a Model S.
I like the Volt, still glad I didn't buy one.

It will be interesting how Model S sales (leases) go when the initial leased LEAFs are turned back in.

The Model S (and X) are very cool rides.

 

[leafwing]

I read the article; it is disingenuous to suggest that some owners, who put high miles on their cars, are to blame for the capacity loss. What about the owner who charges twice a day to 100% and put more than 50k miles in less two years without any or minimal capacity loss?

 

[camasleaf]

Why wouldn't you buy a volt if that's the case

Because the Leaf does not stink.
After 1.5 years 23000 miles I can still do 70 miles from 80% to VLBW, not that I usually plan to go that low but the QC charger was down and I do not use public L2. I have done over 160 miles in one day starting at 100% and two 20 minutes QCs.
With the battery replacement priced at $5000, I am 10000 miles away from saving enough to buy a new battery.
Did I mention that the Leaf does not stink?

 

[Stoaty]

The Leaf is "not for every driver," said Reuter.

"You need to make sure your driving style and driving needs fit the output of the vehicle," he said. "We know that the wide majority of U.S. drivers drive no more than 40 miles a day. The Nissan Leaf is a perfect vehicle for those individuals. For those who drive more than that, [the Nissan LEAF] may not be [for you]."

A refreshing change from promising folks the moon and then being surprised when they expect the moon. This is the exact reason I knew the Leaf would be good for me--my commute is 40 miles per day, so anything over about 50 mile range will still work for me. Since I could get over 100 miles when the Leaf was new, I will be OK as long as the capacity doesn't drop below about 50%.

 

[surfingslovak]

A refreshing change from promising folks the moon and then being surprised when they expect the moon.

+1!

 

[Stanton]

Because, if I had bought the Volt, I'd be no better off as far as EV capability AND have $10k-$12k less money to put towards a Model S.
I like the Volt, still glad I didn't buy one.

It will be interesting how Model S sales (leases) go when the initial leased LEAFs are turned back in.

The Model S (and X) are very cool rides.

They might be, but do you think you're going to get a Telsa (lease or buy) for anywhere close to the price of a Leaf? Seems to me people want to have their cake and eat it too: Nissan had the balls to bring to market a great low cost (not cheap) BEV, and I only hope they don't get scared out of that market by the (sometimes) unrealistic expectations of owners who (maybe) shouldn't have bought an EV to begin with.

 

[scottf200]

It will be interesting how Model S sales (leases) go when the initial leased LEAFs are turned back in. The Model S (and X) are very cool rides.

They might be, but do you think you're going to get a Telsa (lease or buy) for anywhere close to the price of a Leaf? Seems to me people want to have their cake and eat it too: Nissan had the balls to bring to market a great low cost (not cheap) BEV, and I only hope they don't get scared out of that market by the (sometimes) unrealistic expectations of owners who (maybe) shouldn't have bought an EV to begin with.

With 37K+ sales world wide there are obviously other markets that fit the LEAF better. For some it seems that it was largely about lowering their gas bill which would offset the lease/sale montly cost. While true you can drive the LEAF 100+ miles a day for long commuters when they have L2 (or access to DC/L3) chargers near work ... multiple deep cycles per day were not "legitamately" part of the projected use and thus balanced design (ignoring heat impact)


As a reference point to the 40 miles per day which was the main thread topic.

1,770 Volt drivers (@ 11am 29Sep12) via http://www.voltstats.net/#dailyTab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[adric22]

I agree with the 40-mile part of it. I would never recommend a Leaf to anyone who drives more than that on a regular basis. That's not because I don't believe the Leaf can work for a 50 or 60 mile commute, but rather I believe most people would not be happy sacrificing their use of speed, A/C, or heater in order to make certain the trip can be done on a single charge. My daily commute is 12 miles, so no trouble for me. My wife drives a hair over 40 and occasionally she takes my Leaf to work. On a cold winter day she can be retuning home nearing the low-battery warning. So that's not cool. Keep in mind she's the kind of driver that will insist on speeding and running the heater full blast. Of course she's a pretty typical American when it comes to that. If she had to drive 50 miles, I'm not sure she'd make it.

 

[GRA]

I was scanning the news tonight and ran across this article in our local paper.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sns-rt-us-nissan-leafbre88r1d6-20120928,0,6211997.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan North America spokesman David Reuter

The Leaf is "not for every driver," said Reuter.

"You need to make sure your driving style and driving needs fit the output of the vehicle," he said. "We know that the wide majority of U.S. drivers drive no more than 40 miles a day. The Nissan Leaf is a perfect vehicle for those individuals. For those who drive more than that, [the Nissan LEAF] may not be [for you]."

Excellent, Reuter made one accurate statement along with the usual B.S. Now all they need to do is market it that way, and they'll be good to go. No more 100 miles, no more 73 miles, it's "40 miles (in temperate conditions), anything over that depends on your specific situation"; the unhappy customers, lawsuits and bad rep disappear. They should have done that from the start.

 

[caffeinekid]

I was scanning the news tonight and ran across this article in our local paper.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sns-rt-us-nissan-leafbre88r1d6-20120928,0,6211997.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan North America spokesman David Reuter

The Leaf is "not for every driver," said Reuter.

"You need to make sure your driving style and driving needs fit the output of the vehicle," he said. "We know that the wide majority of U.S. drivers drive no more than 40 miles a day. The Nissan Leaf is a perfect vehicle for those individuals. For those who drive more than that, [the Nissan LEAF] may not be [for you]."

Excellent, Reuter made one accurate statement along with the usual B.S. Now all they need to do is market it that way, and they'll be good to go. No more 100 miles, no more 73 miles, it's "40 miles (in temperate conditions), anything over that depends on your specific situation"; the unhappy customers, lawsuits and bad rep disappear. They should have done that from the start.

That is my take exactly. Nissan knew they were blowing smoke from the start and knew full well that if they had marketed a $30K car as having anything less than a 100 mile range that they would have a hard time selling it in any kind of numbers. They also probably planned for the inevitable repercussions that we are witnessing now- those affected customers who make enough of a stink will be placated while those who haven't realized it yet, or don't have the time/patience/money to fight will be left holding part of Nissan's R&D costs. In other words- typical corporate behavior. In my line of work we use the term "field engineering" as a double entendre. That is what we are seeing here- field engineering.