EV Cabs Come To NYC

[LTLFTcomposite]

They should have put the black interior in.

And the 6.6, given that much of the charging will be done with L2 per the story. I wonder why they didn't use 2013s.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. At the end of the day if Alex and Ignatowski compare notes and one made more money than the other by avoiding the $40 fuel expense, word will spread.

How does the cab business work anyway, do the drivers rent the cars for their shifts for a fixed amount, or do they kick back a percentage of the fares to the fleet owner?

 

[apvbguy]

How does the cab business work anyway, do the drivers rent the cars for their shifts for a fixed amount, or do they kick back a percentage of the fares to the fleet owner?

these days in NYC the majority rent the cab for the shift from an owner or fleet, the best solution for this would be putting recharge stations all over town and limit the empty cruising for fares

 

[cwerdna]

Nissan official video "Nissan, New York City Launch LEAF Electric Vehicle Taxi Pilot":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEwZkkVphEY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[NYLEAF]

Interesting article I found about the Taxi program: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/little_juice_coupe_IYkJ6TgG7eLyGShn21AoGI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Berlino]

I wonder how the LEAF taxis are holding up in NYC during the current cold spell.

 

[Berlino]

I haven't been able to find out how the LEAF cabs are holding up during the "polar vortex," but this recent study may interest some forum members.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/electric_taxi_task_force_report_20131231.pdf

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think the Prius PHEV should be included in the fleet, for longer trips. Those can recharge completely in 45 minutes with L-2, and even with no extra charge left they will get 60MPG by using the extra capacity for normal hybrid driving. Make that 50MPG, given the drivers...

 

[DaveEV]

Key findings from that report as it relates to the LEAF being used in a pilot program:

Initial findings show that owner-driver participants have adapted well to their new vehicles. In the first three
months of the pilot, EVs completed more than 2,000 trips. Owner-driver participants have been generating
revenue that is on par with their past earnings and have been completing a number of trips per hour that is
comparable to the trip volume they handled with their conventional taxis.

The owner-driver participant who has been in the program the longest has found a routine for driving the EV
taxi that works for him. He level 2 charges at home to begin his shift with a 100% charge. He picks up a fare at
the airport on the way to Manhattan and works for about 5 hours before doing a 30-minute quick charge. This
quick charge usually powers him for the remainder of his shift. He has been able to complete his shift and return
home off just two charges of his 24kWh battery per shift by conserving range. He does this by cruising less than
he did before and by turning down passengers with far-away destinations whose trips he could not complete
without running out of charge. (There is an exception to TLC refusal rules for the pilot.) Limited battery range
(especially on hot summer days), time spent charging, and quick charger equipment malfunctions have been
the primary challenges participants have been experiencing. Initial results show that there is potential for an EV
--especially a vehicle with a longer range than the LEAF--to be used successfully as a NYC taxi.

The report suggests that a 35 kWh EV would be a good target for future EVs, though I think a bit more might be useful (each taxi is driven an average of 114 miles per shift). I think If the RAV4-EV had 50 kW QC capability, it would probably be a good taxi vehicle (100+ mi range, room for passengers, etc).

 

[CarmineMac]

I haven't been able to find out how the LEAF cabs are holding up during the "polar vortex," but this recent study may interest some forum members.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/electric_taxi_task_force_report_20131231.pdf

I don't understand the battery replacement costs in Figure 4.4 on page 41. Aren't batteries covered by most manufacturers for up to 8 years, including against capacity loss? Why would a taxi with a 5-year service life be expected to incur almost $10k in battery replacement costs? Doesn't that totally change the value gap numbers, too?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Commercial use usually voids typical car manufacturer warranties, unless it's a commercial vehicle.

 

[Berlino]

I don't understand the battery replacement costs in Figure 4.4 on page 41. Aren't batteries covered by most manufacturers for up to 8 years, including against capacity loss? Why would a taxi with a 5-year service life be expected to incur almost $10k in battery replacement costs? Doesn't that totally change the value gap numbers, too?

As Leftie said, there may be different warranty terms for commercial vehicles.

However, LEAF battery capacity is only covered for five years, 60,000 miles. Other aspects of the battery are covered for eight years.

Not sure about the warranties of other EVs.

 

[NYLEAF]

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles/5097/report-details-woes-for-nyc-s-electric-cab-experiment#.U4K5Ai8ngct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This article seems to indicate the trial isn't going very well.

 

[cwerdna]

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles/5097/report-details-woes-for-nyc-s-electric-cab-experiment#.U4K5Ai8ngct

This article seems to indicate the trial isn't going very well.

Thanks for the article! Oh well.

The issues brought up aren't too surprising... Seems like there are many things needed: more range, access to multiple CHAdeMO DC FCs spread out and near popular routes, assuming they have few or none and access to a spare car at the charging station, so they can just switch cars and keep working.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

They should repeat the experiment with a tesla model s and a couple super chargers. I bet the outcome would be different.

 

[apvbguy]

They should repeat the experiment with a tesla model s and a couple super chargers. I bet the outcome would be different.

a great idea, however it is almost certain of never happening because of the very high costs of the car and the charging hardware

 

[DaveEV]

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles/5097/report-details-woes-for-nyc-s-electric-cab-experiment#.U4K5Ai8ngct

This article seems to indicate the trial isn't going very well.

Didn't we all pretty much predict that would happen?

Pretty easy to say what would be needed to make the test successful:

1. More QC stations (and install more than one per location so your chances of getting to a location and getting stuck is significantly reduced!)
2. Heat-pump heater - why they chose the '11-12 LEAF is a mystery over the '13+ LEAF with heat-pump.
3. More range - 100 mi real world range is probably needed.

Solving #1/#2 would probably solve most of the problem, given that '13+ LEAFs seem to QC faster.

a great idea, however it is almost certain of never happening because of the very high costs of the car and the charging hardware

While the car is definitely more expensive, the charging hardware is not significantly different in cost per-plug when compared to CHAdeMO hardware.

 

[Berlino]

They should repeat the experiment with a tesla model s and a couple super chargers. I bet the outcome would be different.

I've read that there's at least one Tesla limo or car service vehicle operating in NYC. They run under different rules than taxis, but in any case JFK airport runs are easy because there's a 4-bay Supercharger station nearby.


As for them using 2011/2012 LEAFs, that's a shame. Didn't the program start in April 2013?


Not mentioned in the article, but if you have a NYC taxi medallion, you normally rent out your vehicle when you're not working. Participants in the LEAF program were limited to having their LEAF work one 12-hour shift per day, so they were giving up income.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I'm not a golfer but will venture a guess that when a cart runs down people don't stop playing golf, they are merely assigned a different cart from the shed.

Starting with the light colored interior it's almost like they went out of their way to see how many bad decisions they could make in conceiving this program.

 

[NYLEAF]

The taxis have two Quick Chargers to use, one of which is located in a (very expensive, although possibly free for the taxis?) parking garage near Times Square, the other located in the maintenance driveway of a Co-Op on the Lower East Side.

The biggest issue, obviously, is that they went with 2012's instead of '13s. Slower charging speed on L2, no heat pump, light colored seats, etc. Plus, they gave the Leafs a weird paint job -- silver and yellow instead of the traditional yellow, which makes people think they aren't "real" taxis. New Yorkers are trained to use the color to determine the type of taxi and its legality -- yellow is a regular taxi you can hail on the street anywhere in NYC, lime green is a taxi you can hail on the street except in most of Manhattan and the airports, and the rest are taxis that you can call and reserve ahead of time or hail illegally and take the risks associated with that.

They also make the taxi drivers pay $7 per QC, yet give them a small stipend for being in the program. They should have just made the QC's free as the incentive.

 

[apvbguy]

I'm not a golfer but will venture a guess that when a cart runs down people don't stop playing golf, they are merely assigned a different cart from the shed.

FWIW: they rarely if ever use a cart that isn't fully charged.