feeling like giving up on electric

[jsongster]

Lots of good ideas for Axle...

Your commute includes a rather tall mountain pass too? Right... since 30 ish miles round trip on flat ground would be easy.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I am 16 months in. Overall I still really like the car. I don't love it. I am less committed to the idea of getting another one when its lease is up this summer. What tipped me over was how catastrophic its range hit was recently during the cold spell. It helped put it in perspective for me. Then I see that a lot of us are driving around in the winter with the heat either off or on low. This is savage, it's how cavemen live, and we shouldn't put up with it.

When people ask me about the car I generally say something like this:

"I like it a lot, it drives very well and has great low-end power. I'm getting the equivalent cost of a gas car with at least 90 MPG. However, its heating isn't great, and its range in the winter is really poor. Even on a full charge it can be as low as 40 miles." That's true, it can be, and it's also enough to convince every person I've spoken to that it's more a scientific curiosity at this point. And hell, it can be 10 F out with the heat on bust at 90 F and it STILL cycles on and off; it will go from hot and 4.5 kWh drain down to 1 kWh for half a minute pumping out cool air, then back on again, just as the steering wheel does. This frankly drives me mad.

I like tech and I got the car as something interesting. I don't regret that at all, and I do love its power train. I will never drive a 107 horsepower car that feels as nice as this. Honestly, I'm considering going back to a non-hybrid sedan for my next vehicle (e.g. 4 cylinder Altima). My previous car was a Prius, but I am a "deal whore". If I can't get a great lease on another Leaf or Prius, I will get an Altima. Even the 4 cylinder is quite quick now (mid 7's 0-60 believe it or not) and its gas economy is pretty good. I only drive about 10-11k/year anyway, so spending more money on a hybrid doesn't always make sense. Even if I could find a good Volt deal, it is a 4 seater, so unusable to me.

There's zero chance I buy out the lease on this. It's too much and owning this car when its battery starts to go would just suffer me in the winter further.

EV's future remains pretty bright and things are improving.

I guess I'm surprised how many care about charging infrastructure. I don't rely on it and don't think others should, either. It is far too weak and will be for a long time, and/or cars are in the way. IMO if you cannot make an EV work using only your own home, then don't get one. Unlike gas stations, which are 99.999999 accessible all the time, charging won't be like that for many years.

 

[JimSouCal]

I am 16 months in. Overall I still really like the car. I don't love it. I am less committed to the idea of getting another one when its lease is up this summer. What tipped me over was how catastrophic its range hit was recently during the cold spell. It helped put it in perspective for me. Then I see that a lot of us are driving around in the winter with the heat either off or on low. This is savage, it's how cavemen live, and we shouldn't put up with it.

When people ask me about the car I generally say something like this:

"I like it a lot, it drives very well and has great low-end power. I'm getting the equivalent cost of a gas car with at least 90 MPG. However, its heating isn't great, and its range in the winter is really poor. Even on a full charge it can be as low as 40 miles." That's true, it can be, and it's also enough to convince every person I've spoken to that it's more a scientific curiosity at this point. And hell, it can be 10 F out with the heat on bust at 90 F and it STILL cycles on and off; it will go from hot and 4.5 kWh drain down to 1 kWh for half a minute pumping out cool air, then back on again, just as the steering wheel does. This frankly drives me mad.

I like tech and I got the car as something interesting. I don't regret that at all, and I do love its power train. I will never drive a 107 horsepower car that feels as nice as this. Honestly, I'm considering going back to a non-hybrid sedan for my next vehicle (e.g. 4 cylinder Altima). My previous car was a Prius, but I am a "deal whore". If I can't get a great lease on another Leaf or Prius, I will get an Altima. Even the 4 cylinder is quite quick now (mid 7's 0-60 believe it or not) and its gas economy is pretty good. I only drive about 10-11k/year anyway, so spending more money on a hybrid doesn't always make sense. Even if I could find a good Volt deal, it is a 4 seater, so unusable to me.

There's zero chance I buy out the lease on this. It's too much and owning this car when its battery starts to go would just suffer me in the winter further.

EV's future remains pretty bright and things are improving.

I guess I'm surprised how many care about charging infrastructure. I don't rely on it and don't think others should, either. It is far too weak and will be for a long time, and/or cars are in the way. IMO if you cannot make an EV work using only your own home, then don't get one. Unlike gas stations, which are 99.999999 accessible all the time, charging won't be like that for many years.

In many ways I agree with what you say... I wouldn't really care to ride around in a car needing down pants, down jacket, winter boots, etc. And I especially agree about a bright future of EVs...

However, the fact that our country is already wired for electricity (even in most rural areas), means that a very rapid switch to having charging available to some degree IS possible. Many years or a few, we'll see; it will be driven by adoption rates..

Also, I am one of the lucky ones who rarely uses the entire shot of range at once, and enjoy a preheat of the car on battery when it's cold (which lately is Southern California we have no Winter, no rain, and no snow in mountains). Entering a warm impresses friends when out to dinner.

EVs are about matching needs to practical day to day usages, and having expectations that align with pragmatics and realities. It kind of seems like a gasoline car in the early days had similar but more dire hassles...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

One concern I have with going back to a gas car is from the perspective of advocacy... not that I think of myself as being all that influential, but there are a substantial number of people who would look at that choice and say "well he had an electric car, it must not have worked out because he got rid of it"... just a little more confirmation on top of all the other preconceptions for why they wouldn't want one.

On the other hand if I get another Leaf (or other EV) when my lease is up that sends a positive message - although somehow I think that positive message would not sway anyone as much as the negative message of going back to gas.

EVs are still at a precarious stage, heavily dependent on subsidies, and if support doesn't continue to build manufacturers will be that much more inclined to look the other way and stick with the status quo.

 

[Limey]

I leased my leaf because I wanted to support the tech without getting stuck with it if it becomes a big dud (mostly battery wise). Unsure if i will buy out the lease (I will wait till i know what my choices are at the time). While the range can be highly limited in the winter time (something the dealer HEAVILY down played) i drive under 30 miles a day, so its not an issue for me.

I don't think there is any reason to go back to a full ICE, maybe (depending on your situation) you need to look at the stop gap car, the volt.

With both Tesla and GM saying they are going to be putting out $35K 200 EVs in the next couple of years, we can tell that EVs really are the future. It will be like the prius; soon the numbers will hit critical mass and you will see them everywhere.

 

[BraveLittleToaster]

Well, that's just not me.

Maybe that's just the hardcore crazy environmentalist and all, but having a *car* is the compromise. Before we bought our Leaf, we had *no* car. I would bike my kids to and from school and daycare every day, rain or shine, and the only thing stopping me would be if I was laid up with some nasty illness or other. I lived three blocks from work and three from the grocery store. We made a conscious decision to just not need a car to begin with. The difference between you and I is that you made an unconscious decision to live where a gas car was absolutely necessary, and nothing else would do. I highly doubt that it even entered your mind that you *could* live without a car. Most people think that it's a completely insane idea, but I found it to be quite practical, because I designed my whole life around not owning a car, much like you designed your whole life around owning one. It's just the default for so many people that it's like bizarro world to be any different, and so they say "that's not practical".

Buying a car - even an EV - is still one of those things we do that damages the environment (and don't kid yourself, it's a lot). It just does *less* damage (and where we live, electricity is especially clean). So when we made the decision to move, it was electric or nothing. Or not move. Some days I still wish we hadn't moved, but it has nothing to do with the car.

 

[KJD]

Well, that's just not me.

Maybe that's just the hardcore crazy environmentalist and all, but having a *car* is the compromise. Before we bought our Leaf, we had *no* car. I would bike my kids to and from school and daycare every day, rain or shine, and the only thing stopping me would be if I was laid up with some nasty illness or other. I lived three blocks from work and three from the grocery store. We made a conscious decision to just not need a car to begin with. The difference between you and I is that you made an unconscious decision to live where a gas car was absolutely necessary, and nothing else would do. I highly doubt that it even entered your mind that you *could* live without a car. Most people think that it's a completely insane idea, but I found it to be quite practical, because I designed my whole life around not owning a car, much like you designed your whole life around owning one. It's just the default for so many people that it's like bizarro world to be any different, and so they say "that's not practical".

Buying a car - even an EV - is still one of those things we do that damages the environment (and don't kid yourself, it's a lot). It just does *less* damage (and where we live, electricity is especially clean). So when we made the decision to move, it was electric or nothing. Or not move. Some days I still wish we hadn't moved, but it has nothing to do with the car.

Excellent post. Thank you for sharing.

As for giving up on electric. That will never happen. I might give up on Nissan but I will always drive electric.

 

[uwskier20]

Wanted to +1 this post as well. I am one of those who elected to live in the suburbs, with a commute that challenges the range of the LEAF (save for being able to charge at work). In retrospect, we would have probably lived closer in. A walking commute sounds wonderful, and Seattle is much more livable than it was even five years ago, when we bought our home. I always looked to your Vancouver as a highly livable city (we're actually headed up there this weekend), and now Seattle seems to be catching up.

We currently have an ICE for those rare longer trips. It's a '12 Impreza, which we will have for many years to come, but it will be the last ICE we buy.

 

[Stoaty]

As for giving up on electric. That will never happen. I might give up on Nissan but I will always drive electric.

Agreed. When my battery pack gets too low (? 3 more years) I will either buy a new pack (if available for purchase and with a more heat tolerant separator/electrolyte) or a BEV with a longer range. At present I am leaning towards a Tesla as Nissan has really blown it on battery longevity. If not for that major flaw I would consider Gen 1 Leaf amazing.

 

[Nubo]

....having a *car* is the compromise. Before we bought our Leaf, we had *no* car. I would bike my kids to and from school and daycare every day, rain or shine, and the only thing stopping me would be if I was laid up with some nasty illness or other. I lived three blocks from work and three from the grocery store. We made a conscious decision to just not need a car to begin with. The difference between you and I is that you made an unconscious decision to live where a gas car was absolutely necessary, and nothing else would do. I highly doubt that it even entered your mind that you *could* live without a car. Most people think that it's a completely insane idea, but I found it to be quite practical, because I designed my whole life around not owning a car, much like you designed your whole life around owning one. ...

Definitely a wider perspective helps. Your bicycle comment reminds me of a couple of years ago when I visited my sister-in-law during a bicycle tour. She took me out for dinner; a drive of maybe 20 miles. After a few hundred miles of pedaling down the Pacific coast, I stopped seeing her car as a tired, ratty 15-year-old vehicle. Hey, this was a friggin' miracle! "Look! We're going down the road and we're not even pedaling"!

Ya' know? Going down the road in my LEAF, and NO GASOLINE! 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 miles? It's a friggin' miracle. And after 2 years I still can't get over it.

As far as heat, I'm not all that bothered. In my 20's I drove a couple of VW Beetles (in the Snow Belt) that had next to no heat at all. Used to smear glycerine on the windows to keep the frost at bay. In the LEAF I feel like I'm in the lap of luxury! I guess it's all what you're used to or have experienced in life. I've gone on a few max-range trips and avoided using the heater with temps in the 20's and 30's. I didn't particularly feel like a caveman or that I was engaged in self-flagellation. A warm sweater with seat and steering wheel heat and I was just fine. For my daily commutes pre-heating the car in the garage is truly a luxury and something you just can't have with a gasoline car. I love electric and I've got a feeling i'll be driving electric from here on out.

 

[abasile]

As for giving up on electric. That will never happen. I might give up on Nissan but I will always drive electric.

+1. In my next EV, I'm definitely looking for more range, longer battery life, and better regen. However, I do thank Nissan for getting me into an EV to start with.

As far as heat, I'm not all that bothered.

Same here. Even when it is cold out (20s, 30s), we generally do not feel much need to have the heater on except when it's necessary to defog the windows. Just being in the shelter of a car is a luxury compared to bicycling in the cold. I generally find that, even when I am not at all range limited, I prefer leaving the heater off just to have a quieter cabin, another perk of driving electric.