First full month on E-9 rates

[Electric4Me]

We have about 5.5 kW of solar PV panels and before the two electric cars (We have both the Leaf and the Volt), last year our system generated 1200kW more than we used and produced a "credit" of $438 (that customer oriented PG&E will not be paying us--because they don't have to).

George,
the rules changed late last year I think. PG&E will now pay you for kWh produced in excess, though I'm not sure what rate that's at. I would assume the retail rate. There is still a "dead zone" though between where you've paid for all of the electricity via the Peak generation with Off-Peak consumption and therefore owe zero, and where you've produced more actual kWh than you've consumed.

For me, I've spent 6 months on E-6 before getting the car, and now have had it a month. I haven't looked switching to E-9 because I was under the impression that was designed for EV users only? Can anyone comment on E-6 vs E-9 for solar + EV?

 

[Spies]

For me, I've spent 6 months on E-6 before getting the car, and now have had it a month. I haven't looked switching to E-9 because I was under the impression that was designed for EV users only? Can anyone comment on E-6 vs E-9 for solar + EV?

I know someone on the forum posted a pretty good analysis between the two but I can't seem to find it right now. The analysis I did for myself some time ago showed E9A was best for me even if I was to add solar panels. The biggest factors for me was my baseline rate, no air conditioning and gas heating.

 

[Electric4Me]

The biggest factors for me was my baseline rate, no air conditioning and gas heating.

That's right...that's what I stumbled on when I looked into this before. I couldn't find my baseline allocation. I'm not sure where to find this (and I haven't tried the simple thing of calling PG&E).

 

[Spies]

I'm not sure where to find this (and I haven't tried the simple thing of calling PG&E).

Here is a good source for info http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservice/financialassistance/medicalbaseline/understand/ It will be on your bill as well. I suspect you are in "X" just like me which is a baseline of 12.1 kWh Summer and 12.6 kWh Winter. I lucked out in this respect as I am just inside "X" right next to "T" If I was "T" my baseline would only be 8.3 kWh and 9.8 kWh.

 

[Electric4Me]

Thanks Steven!

What's the difference between "Code B" and "Code H"? The Code H winter almost looks like a typo in this context...

Baseline Area X
Electric - Code B
Basic Quantities Summer: 12.1 Winter: 12.6
Electric - Code H
All-Electric Quantities Summer: 12.2 Winter: 22.9

Bill

 

[Spies]

What's the difference between "Code B" and "Code H"? The Code H winter almost looks like a typo in this context...

It does almost look like a typo but code H is for those homes that were built without gas service and only electric so the baseline in the winter is much higher to give a break for electric heating. I don't know if one was to cancel gas service could they move to an all electric rate but it is perhaps something to look into.

 

[gascant]

Yep, you guys got it. I was about to send the E-9 brochure to Electric4Me when I saw the dialog. We're all 12.1 kWh/day as baseline. Before the LEAF, in a good month, I'd use about 13/day.

 

[solanaleaf]

To really understand and track your usage get a per circuit monitoring system. Expensive at about $1500 but provides detailed reports on every device in the house and has really changed our behavior and saved us money. Plus no more going outside to write down meter information!

I use Ecodog and love it.

www.ecodoginc.com

 

[LindaK]

LindaK, how much solar do you have? What would be about the smallest solar panel system to install? I don't need to get my bill negative but sure would be nice to skim some of the gravy off the top.

smkettner et al,

Sorry to be so slow in responding, but here are some thoughts as you consider solar:

I worked with RECSolar and their engineers came out and analyzed my site (roof space/roof angle/roof direction/potential shadows) and came up with three options for me to choose from. Every site is different, so this effort was invaluable. I chose a 2.8 kW system to cover the entire needs of my home. But they do offer smaller systems, and calculate savings and years to payback based on prior PGE bills (which you provide).

I live right on the coast, so my e-bill was low to begin with (no A/C for example), but many systems the REC puts in are designed to get the customers out of the higher cost tiers only, and not cover all costs. Definitely YOUR choice.

I hope it's not improper to plug REC, but they did a fabulous job, and I was very happy with them.
Linda

 

[hill]

George,
the rules changed late last year I think. PG&E will now pay you for kWh produced in excess, though I'm not sure what rate that's at. I would assume the retail rate. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip

Wow ... nice assumption ... but simply not true. Utilities across the state are busy negotiating with the PUC to pay the teeniest - paltry amount possible. Most likely, if the utilities have their way, they'll only be paying a FRACTION of the amount YOU and I pay for our minimum rates on tiered structures. We'll end up lucky if thy throw us a bone at 4¢ per kWh. Think about it ... YOU generate during peek times, that yield a 30¢ per kWh and MORE ... yet your utility provider is working hard to circumvent the legislation by paying the smallest amount imaginable. Gee . . . . . . I'm so surprised. Anyone interested ought to contact the PUC to stop this kind of rip-off.

 

[jwatte]

Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to [email protected] -- for what it's worth

I am writing to you on the matter of whether, and how much, public utilities should credit consumers who generate electricity and supply it back, running the meter "in reverse." I live and am a rate payer in Redwood City, California. However, I do not personally have solar or any other generation facility -- I simply write as a rate payer, voter, and concerned citizen.

From what I hear, currently, the utilities want to pay some fraction of their cheapest baseline rates. It makes sense to allow the utilities some mark-down -- say, 10% at the most -- but they already charge separately for meters, transmission, decommissioning, and other overhead, so a mark-down more than that would not be fair market value, nor would it be in the interest of the rate payers.
The question is also what rate to base the payment on. Utilities may suggest the lowest Tier-1 fixed-rate baseline rate. Customers generating overflow during peak hours may want to get paid the same they would pay, should they not have generated the power. This would probably be the highest, Tier-5, peak-time rates.
I think basing consumer-generated electricity compensation on anything lower than the Tier 1 cost for time-of-use customers would be too unfair to customers and not properly compensate those who do generate additional capacity according to demand. Basing paybacks on a higher tier would be preferable for generating customers, because they are generating top-line capacity to serve top-line demand that the utility is billing out elsewhere. However, the accounting and politicking involved would probably make basing it on a higher tier impractical.
Thus, a proper rate to use as a baseline would be something like the E-6 or E-9 Tier 1 rate for the time-of-use period during which the energy is actually generated. This means that excess energy sold back during summer peak times would currently be based on a $0.31 or $0.30 per kWh rate for capacity generated during summer peak time, minus whatever the discount is set at, and those rates would then be adjusted in tandem with the underlying rate payer rate.

Thanks for your attention to this input to the public decision making process,

<signed will full name, address and phone number>

 

[gascant]

We've got E-9 rates on the agenda for this Saturday's SF BayLEAFs meeting at Luscious Garage. Anyone with experience is welcome to show up. My application for E-9a has been approved but I've not yet been switched over. The simple calculator that PG&E provides at their web site suggests that my electric bill will go up by $95/month in Summer but I'll not be spending the $150/month for gasoline. So, it's a net savings of $55. I did a more detailed calculation myself for Winter and the savings is about $40/month.

 

[linkim]

We've got E-9 rates on the agenda for this Saturday's SF BayLEAFs meeting at Luscious Garage. Anyone with experience is welcome to show up. My application for E-9a has been approved but I've not yet been switched over. The simple calculator that PG&E provides at their web site suggests that my electric bill will go up by $95/month in Summer but I'll not be spending the $150/month for gasoline. So, it's a net savings of $55. I did a more detailed calculation myself for Winter and the savings is about $40/month.

Howard,
Perhaps you can share your calculation on how your electric bill increased by $95/month. How much was due to charging the LEAF, and how much from using peak electricity in the 2-9PM weekday? For some unknown reason (to me) the Blink did not record the kWh charge for one day after I upgraded to the latest version.

Kim

 

[gascant]

Perhaps you can share your calculation on how your electric bill increased by $95/month. How much was due to charging the LEAF, and how much from using peak electricity in the 2-9PM weekday? For some unknown reason (to me) the Blink did not record the kWh charge for one day after I upgraded to the latest version.

I'll bring what I have--I'm sure it's vastly oversimplified if PG&E is providing it. I did find a more detailed calculator provided by the former CEO of Tesla, but I never got it to work on my computer.

 

[fenselau]

Unfortunately I won't be able to join the gathering on Saturday But I'll share my experience on the PGE rate plans for those who already have solar, comparing E6 with E9-- E6 is probably better!

I spent an hour on the phone last week with a helpful PGE analyst trying to assess the net trade-offs of my solar E6 time-of-use rates (where I sell back all my daytime surplus at peak rates and only have peak and off-peak) vs the low-low midnight to 8am E9 charging rates (but where I sell my surplus back at a lower rate and have an additional near-peak rate window). None of the calculators work for comparing the various dimensions of this, so I was super-nice to the analyst and -- using my real data from the past 12 months (I have an 1800sf house, pretty high efficiency, with 3 kids)-- the E9 rate would have cost me 25-35% more over the course of the year.

I'll miss everyone on Saturday-- have fun, and please send out notes!

Andy

 

[csriram45]

E9a rate for me has been a blessing. My electricity bill has dropped even though my usage has gone up. Of course I have been using the off peak rates better by doing my heavy electricity usage during off peak rate hours. It does require me to adjust my usage patterns but so far its been ok. My usage definitely has gone to higher tiers and moved from Tier 3 to Tier 4.

I have been thinking of going with Solar but if my $$s do not justify going solar then I might put a hold on that project. Summer usage is going to be the determining factor as my A/C usage will go up.

Here is the most recent bill. I find one thing perplexing is that the baseline credit is only at lowest rate (249 x $0.02)?. Any one can break it down for me?

Electric Charges $69.84
Total Usage 546.286200 Kwh

Summer Peak Usage
Baseline Usage 40.460000 Kwh @ $0.30470
101-130% of Baseline 12.138000 Kwh @ $0.30470
131-200% of Baseline 23.514400 Kwh @ $0.45948

Summer Partial Peak Usage
Baseline Usage 64.440000 Kwh @ $0.11135
101-130% of Baseline 19.332000 Kwh @ $0.11135
131-200% of Baseline 37.456800 Kwh @ $0.26613

Summer Off-Peak Usage
Baseline Usage 185.500000 Kwh @ $0.05294
101-130% of Baseline 55.650000 Kwh @ $0.05294
131-200% of Baseline 107.795000 Kwh @ $0.14802
Baseline Credit 290.400000 Kwh @ -$0.01729

I will have to wait and watch and see how it works.

 

[Spies]

the E9 rate would have cost me 25-35% more over the course of the year.

That seems like a huge difference between E9 and E6. I would love to see the math you used. Just to be clear this was E9A correct? I suppose a lot has to do the trade off of when your solar system creates the most power that most likely leans towards E6 and the super cheap power of charging that E9A provides. I don't have solar yet so E9A is a clear winner for me at the moment.

 

[gascant]

E9a rate for me has been a blessing. My electricity bill has dropped even though my usage has gone up.

Sam are you going to be able to come to the BayLEAFs meeting this Saturday? It would be great to share that with the group. Or maybe I can copy/paste your post and show it anyway?

 

[Leafittome]

Just got my bill from PG&E after the first month of nightly Leaf charging. I believe we're E6 with a 4.3Kw PV array. Monthly total was minus $34 for May. June, July and August will be lower still. So, happily, I see little impact from my wife driving her Leaf 1000 miles per month thanks to solar!

 

[csriram45]

E9a rate for me has been a blessing. My electricity bill has dropped even though my usage has gone up.

Sam are you going to be able to come to the BayLEAFs meeting this Saturday? It would be great to share that with the group. Or maybe I can copy/paste your post and show it anyway?

I am down with cold so if I do recover I should be able to make it. Can't believe it's June and still raining and cold. Do share with the group. E9a seems to be a better bet if you can use the lower rate to run your other appliances too. In my case it's been the case.

I have to check the other thread to see for carpool options.