Goodbye Nissan Leaf, hello Kia Soul EV

[TomT]

Actually, it looks much nicer in person...

At least Kia had a presence at the L.A. Auto Show with their Soul EV and didn't treat it like an unwanted stepchild as Nissan did with the Leaf (see my comments on this in the LAB thread)...
Everyone with an EV did a better job of showing it off than Nissan, in fact!

The shifter looks like it is from a real Geo Metro)

 

[CMYK4Life]

Joking aside this thread did get me thinking about the Soul EV and other EV's in general.

Even though I knew they are not available in my area I still called around.... its true, no Soul EV unless I want to buy it far far away. So like a Model S... it might as well be fiction for me.

I am not a die hard Leaf fan-boy; I actually want to experience other EV's (like the Soul). I think its an exciting time for the EV's; but to date no company seems to want to sell to my region or get the price low enough for me to 'afford' it.

 

[WetEV]

Joking aside this thread did get me thinking about the Soul EV and other EV's in general.

Even though I knew they are not available in my area I still called around.... its true, no Soul EV unless I want to buy it far far away. So like a Model S... it might as well be fiction for me.

I am not a die hard Leaf fan-boy; I actually want to experience other EV's (like the Soul). I think its an exciting time for the EV's; but to date no company seems to want to sell to my region or get the price low enough for me to 'afford' it.

Ford Focus Electric is about the only real option sold nationwide that is reasonably "affordable".

 

[TomT]

In talking to the Ford rep at the L.A. Auto show, he indicated that another price drop is in the offing... That MIGHT make me seriously consider it as an interim EV solution via a two or three year lease... It doesn't have QC or the range that I would really like, but it would be enticing at the new price as a stop-gap measure if they offer strong lease deals...

Ford Focus Electric is about the only real option sold nationwide that is reasonably "affordable".

 

[CMYK4Life]

In talking to the Ford rep at the L.A. Auto show, he indicated that another price drop is in the offing... That MIGHT make me seriously consider it as an interim EV solution via a two or three year lease... It doesn't have QC or the range that I would really like, but it would be enticing at the new price as a stop-gap measure if they offer strong lease deals...

Ford Focus Electric is about the only real option sold nationwide that is reasonably "affordable".

I called around my area for the Focus EV about a month ago. The best lease price I could get on the phone was $380/month. At that price I guess I just want more capability, range, performance, luxury, something.

 

[TomT]

Agreed. That would not work for me either...

I called around my area for the Focus EV about a month ago. The best lease price I could get on the phone was $380/month. At that price I guess I just want more capability, range, performance, luxury, something.

 

[nosuchthing]

Soul is also about 380 per month if you put 2000 down, or thereabouts.
I put 3,500 down and got it for 349. I would have bargained even harder if I knew what I was doing, but is seems I got it for 36,000 nominal price which is below suggested retail.

 

[asimba2]

That's close to double the cost of a Leaf lease. At least for a 2013+ model; I know the price dropped a lot after 2012.

 

[nerys]

Ouch

$500 a month and your limited to what? 15,000 a year?

not worth it. gas is cheaper.

$12,000 for the soul and you don't get to keep it

or $4500 for gasoline even at 20mpg.

Gas is cheaper than the soul EV. by a lot.

This is why I could not buy a "new" Leaf. and why I was interested in the FIT EV. with unlimited miles and $250 a month. Effectively $200 a month since that includes collision and comp insurance.

that is $4800 for a 2 year lease. but I would SAVE $17,000 in gasoline. good deal. alas honda did not like my credit Grrrr

my Leaf is pretty darned good too.

$18k assuming I get 3 years out of the battery that is a savings of $25,000 in gasoline. in other words enough to 100% pay for the car AND 100% pay for the next battery in 3 years.

Just in gas savings.

In theory in 3 years time I could throw the leaf away and buy the next longer range leaf or something else and have paid nothing for the leaf at all and infact put $6000 in my pocket (not replace the battery)

I think I will replace the battery and keep the leaf. have it as a second electric car and still possibly get another newer electric.

or wait till battery 3 at which time 2018 model year EV's will be 2 years old and more affordable and should have a 200mile range by then (fingers crossed)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Buying an EV has become a big IF for me. I lost 9 grand on Leaf. I am loath repeating that again. EVs are a work in progress for a few years forward, so buying one is not going to be cut and dry for a while.

I particularly would like to see Magnesium-based and/or Lithium-Sulfur chemistry before anything else. I will consider buying again once we reach at least 400-mile, real-life range mark. By then the infrastructure will also be denser and more operable.

You'd have lost 9 grand on a lease too...

sorry but you need to prove to me that you lost on that. if no LEAF, then what?? what car would have kept its value? what car would have been break even AFTER expenses?? what??

I am willing to bet you lost nearly nothing when you assign a value of what your transportation costs should be.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ouch

$500 a month and your limited to what? 15,000 a year?

not worth it. gas is cheaper.

$12,000 for the soul and you don't get to keep it

or $4500 for gasoline even at 20mpg.

Gas is cheaper than the soul EV. by a lot.

This is why I could not buy a "new" Leaf. and why I was interested in the FIT EV. with unlimited miles and $250 a month. Effectively $200 a month since that includes collision and comp insurance.

that is $4800 for a 2 year lease. but I would SAVE $17,000 in gasoline. good deal. alas honda did not like my credit Grrrr

my Leaf is pretty darned good too.

$18k assuming I get 3 years out of the battery that is a savings of $25,000 in gasoline. in other words enough to 100% pay for the car AND 100% pay for the next battery in 3 years.

Just in gas savings.

In theory in 3 years time I could throw the leaf away and buy the next longer range leaf or something else and have paid nothing for the leaf at all and infact put $6000 in my pocket (not replace the battery)

I think I will replace the battery and keep the leaf. have it as a second electric car and still possibly get another newer electric.

or wait till battery 3 at which time 2018 model year EV's will be 2 years old and more affordable and should have a 200mile range by then (fingers crossed)

good analysis. I won't buy ANY EV until it gives me 135 mile and costs less than $32,000. Until then, I lease. I hope to buy in Dec 2016 when my current lease is out and Nissan is the front runner simply because I anticipate loyalty incentives will make another LEAF (or whatever they have) a more attractive offer.

As far as driving cheap... Hard to beat the LEAF especially if you drive it as part of your work day

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/tco-equals-zero.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[lorenfb]

"As far as driving cheap... Hard to beat the LEAF especially if you drive it as part of your work day"

That's very true. Wish, though, mine at 13K (56.5 Ahrs) had your capacity (Ah; 63.03-66.77).
So maybe there's been some unannounced battery improvement that occurred in late 2013
that my Leaf didn't get. The difference is significant also given that you have more miles than I.
Based on that, it's not attributable to random battery variations over time as some on the
forum have implied.

 

[nerys]

New? Agreed. Range too low warranty woefully inadequate. Capacity way too low degredation too high.

Used however is another story all together.

At $18k buying is way cheaper than leasing and you still get to keep the car.

Now if you drive little enough to make leasing viable why are you considering an ev?

Even your lease payment will exceed the cost of gasoline??

 

[Valdemar]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. When my Leaf replaced a similarly priced (when it was new considering the incentives on the Leaf) 7y/o 22mpg ICE back in 2011 I did set the bar pretty low for the Leaf hoping at least it will not be more expensive over 5 years than the car it replaced all things included. I thought it was an easy target considering all information available at the time, and I had high hopes it could do much better than that on a 18-20k miles/year commute. Alas, with all the developments over the last 3 years so far I'm exactly where the bar was set. I still think it is pretty good for a brand new car to be as expensive to own as a 7 y/o used one. Of course a Prius would have been a more prudent but infinitely boring choice, same goes for an economical gasser.

 

[DanCar]

... Of course a Prius would have been a more prudent but infinitely boring choice, same goes for an economical gasser.

Of course another option would have been to wait for the tech to mature, wait for the lower prices and better battery of the 2013. Past two summers and I'm still getting 90+ mile range on mostly freeway, for the occasional weekend trip.

 

[Valdemar]

... Of course a Prius would have been a more prudent but infinitely boring choice, same goes for an economical gasser.

Of course another option would have been to wait for the tech to mature, wait for the lower prices and better battery of the 2013. Past two summers and I'm still getting 90+ mile range on mostly freeway, for the occasional weekend trip.

Sure, but that would mean burning several thousand gallons of gas, which was something I wasn't entirely comfortable with. Also at the time I was facing upcoming major maintenance, tire and brake replacement, which was an expense I wanted to avoid.

 

[pkulak]

Buying an EV has become a big IF for me. I lost 9 grand on Leaf. I am loath repeating that again. EVs are a work in progress for a few years forward, so buying one is not going to be cut and dry for a while.

I particularly would like to see Magnesium-based and/or Lithium-Sulfur chemistry before anything else. I will consider buying again once we reach at least 400-mile, real-life range mark. By then the infrastructure will also be denser and more operable.

You'd have lost 9 grand on a lease too...

sorry but you need to prove to me that you lost on that. if no LEAF, then what?? what car would have kept its value? what car would have been break even AFTER expenses?? what??

I am willing to bet you lost nearly nothing when you assign a value of what your transportation costs should be.

My Leaf lease will cost me a little bit more than $9000 after 2 years, including all fees at turn in.

I'm not comparing it to anything except the guy who said he lost 9 grand by owning. Well, it cost more than that much to lease, so I'm not sure why everyone says that leasing is the obvious choice.

 

[nerys]

Ahhhhh

" Also at the time I was facing upcoming major maintenance, tire and brake replacement, which was an expense I wanted to avoid."

Wow. PLEASE don't take that wrong. Absolutely no insult intended Just "surprise" that this kind of attitude is way more common than I thought.

While sitting in the dealership waiting room (looking at my drivers window it was not working properly)

I was STUNNED when a rep came in and asked for so and so to give the report on his car and that he needed brakes.

over $300. My jaw damned near hit the floor when he not only accepted such an ass raping but did so with a smile and his only real concern on signing was "how long"

not. why are you charging me 10 times what it costs?

Brake pads. $30. 30 minutes later your done.

**** it takes longer to dig out the jack jack up the car and remove/reinstall the wheel than it does to replace the brake pads.

Simply mind blowing. If a rep came up to me and asked if I wanted them to change my brake pads for $300 I am not joking I would laugh out loud at them and go "ARE YOU MAD" NO I do not want you touching my brake pads at $300 !!

Caliper? what? $50? Pads? $30 rotor? $30 or $40 ?

even if I have to replace everything its under $100.

and he smiled as he signed away over $300 to swap out front brake pads.

Since I could never DREAM of affording to (what I consider) blow money that way I simply assumed no one else could either. boy was I wrong.

a little hint.

BRAKES AND TIRES ARE NOT MAJOR MAINTENANCE. they are "core" common yearly "consumables" that need to be replaced on ANY car on a regular basis.

Traction battery is major maintenance. Gear Reduction unit is major maintenance. OBC or Drive Motor replacement is major maintenance.

Brakes and Tires are NOT major maintenance.!!!!!

Folks who PAY OTHERS to fix their cars and then complain about gas prices???. What??. trust me if your paying OTHERS to fix your car on a regular basis GASOLINE is not your largest budgetary concern.

Sorry for the rant it was simply mind boggling to see so much MONEY go "poof" like that!!!

Tires? $20 a pop. used tires. sometimes $10 for the smaller (metro/tracker) tires.

On my leaf I just might buy new! tirerack has a pretty slick deal. $104 a pop for ecopia's and 2 year warranty. full coverage even for cut/puncture!! considering I will put 60,000 miles on a set of tires in 2 years and there is no mileage limit.

Yep. that is where I am ordering my tires

 

[Valdemar]

Thanks, but I don't need an eye opener here. I usually do simple maintenance myself which includes oil and brake pad changes. Also I don't like to skimp on the parts that I use. This was my list, for big bill items anyway:

F/R brake pads, turn the rotors - $150-200 (DIY, good brake pads - not the crap you buy from Pep Boys)
Timing Belt - approx. $300 (Subaru has 2, so more work)
Tires - approx $800 installed in the size I needed and quality that I find acceptable to be used on a vehicle with a 250hp turbo engine
New spark plugs - $150-200, they are somewhat a PITA to change on Subarus, I'd rather pay someone to do it than DIY.
A clutch replacement was looming too - figure $500 if not more.

Add coolant and brake fluid flush, oil, air filter would bring me to $1500-2000, and that is not counting any potential repairs down the road while I was waiting for an "improved EV".

 

[TimLee]

...
While sitting in the dealership waiting room (looking at my drivers window it was not working properly)
...
Folks who PAY OTHERS to fix their cars and then complain about gas prices???.

Way off topic, but:
Then why were you at car dealer for non-working window?
There is a separate thread that details switch part # and how to replace it.
Will be $200+ at dealer.
The person in the thread did it for under $80 from copart IIRC.

I agree dealer cost is high.
But the proper brake replacement at dealer, Midas Muffler, etc. is usually more than change pads.
Disc brakes for two decades or more have often required turning or replacing rotors.

Thanks for info on Tire Rack. I have bought from them several times.