Great ... a garage fire with a plug in vehicle in it

[davewill]

I know its painfully expensive and unfair, but perhaps a proper installation of a 240V EVSE by an electrician after proper city inspections would reduce some of the blame when these things happen. Note this one was a professional installation.

There are already building codes that cover this adequately. Most places you can do your own electrical work, you just have to get a permit and have it inspected. If you follow the rules, there should be no more "blame" than if you have a professional do it. Anyway, all of the speculation is silly. It shouldn't be the EVSE or the car, but none of us can say for sure that it wasn't. The investigation should be able to arrive at the truth.

 

[Nekota]

I had the AV EVSE installed before I knew about other units being available so I haven't looked at the other choices but I find the use of a plastic housing for the EVSE electronics that hangs on the wall questionable. If there is a resistance of 2 ohms in the power wiring, as in a loose connector, then the 16A will dissipate ~500 watts which would not be a good thing inside the plastic housing. If it were metal it would burn inside the box and likely be contained but the plastic housing looks like it would contribute fuel. If this fire does trace back to the EVSE, then we will be needing more robust enclosures? I know my EVSE was installed by a professional and they stressed tested it with an electronic load but they did not do any thermal imaging of the wiring to look for hot spots. Maybe an investment in a thermal imaging device like the one by Black and Decker would be a good idea? I recall Phil showing some thermal pictures of his modified EVSE -- http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -- wow the search worked!

 

[brucedp]

The newswire I posted on this
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Utility-Duke-Energy-too-quick-to-point-house-fire-blame-on-EVs-tp4016726p4016726.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

had less detail / info than the original post of this thread.

This is now the second utility too quick to point fingers at EVs (or their associated equipment)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6535" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PG&E blamed EVs for their old equipment failure, lumping them to together with 'illegal' indoor pot growers.

One recourse is to post comments on the newswire page clearly and concisely pointing out EVs are being singled out when there are no facts = Utility and media prejudice against EVs. We need to spank the hands of both of these guys to keep their feet to the fire that should be releasing pieces that are factual, relevant, thus of public use, and not just emotion mongering that disseminates disinformation about EVs.


{brucedp.150m.com}

 

[tps]

I know its painfully expensive and unfair, but perhaps a proper installation of a 240V EVSE by an electrician after proper city inspections would reduce some of the blame when these things happen. Note this one was a professional installation.

And it still doesn't appear to help, does it?

So would hiring a professional race car driver to safely drive your kids to school be a wise option? That way you have less blame when there's an accident.

Nothing "reduces" blame in the US, anyone can sue you for anything, then you still have to go into court and defend yourself.

Where does one stop at the liability reduction game? Maybe it's safer to eschew all forms of energy and go off-grid.

-Phil

But this does point out the way that many people think. I did something, maybe I even did the generally accepted thing, so it must have made things better. Add in a healthy dose of "wives tales" and, well, you can see where I'm going with this...

 

[davewill]

... This is now the second utility too quick to point fingers at EVs (or their associated equipment) ...

I can't agree with this assessment. Duke themselves put these EVSEs in place, and as far as I can tell, these are the first serious roll out of the Siemens EVSE. They are being rightly cautious in warning the program participants.

 

[zarwin]

The newswire I posted on this
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Utility-Duke-Energy-too-quick-to-point-house-fire-blame-on-EVs-tp4016726p4016726.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

had less detail / info than the original post of this thread.

This is now the second utility too quick to point fingers at EVs (or their associated equipment)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6535" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PG&E blamed EVs for their old equipment failure, lumping them to together with 'illegal' indoor pot growers.

One recourse is to post comments on the newswire page clearly and concisely pointing out EVs are being singled out when there are no facts = Utility and media prejudice against EVs. We need to spank the hands of both of these guys to keep their feet to the fire that should be releasing pieces that are factual, relevant, thus of public use, and not just emotion mongering that disseminates disinformation about EVs.


{brucedp.150m.com}

I don't see that Duke Energy did anything wrong or was overreacting. Seems the message has been warped a bit. To quote the news outlet above:

WBTV
Duke Energy is asking its customers that use an electric charging station to charge their electric vehicles at home to stop immediately

Actual communication from Duke to its pilot customers (me)

Duke Enegry
We have recently learned that firefighters in Mooresville, North Carolina, responded to a garage and house fire late on October 30. There was a plug-in electric vehicle, a charging station and a number of other items in the garage at the time of the fire. We have no reason to believe that the charging station contributed to the fire, but out of an abundance of caution, we suggest that our current pilot participants consider not using the charging station installed as part of Duke Energy’s Charge Carolinas and Project Plug IN pilots until we have additional information. We are working closely with the local fire marshal and our own experts to determine the cause of the fire and will update you as the cause becomes clearer.

 

[Yodrak]

I understand the point you wish to make, but a more appropriate analogy would be hiring a professional chauffeur, not a professional race car driver.

So would hiring a professional race car driver to safely drive your kids to school be a wise option? That way you have less blame when there's an accident.

Nothing "reduces" blame in the US, anyone can sue you for anything, then you still have to go into court and defend yourself.

Where does one stop at the liability reduction game? Maybe it's safer to eschew all forms of energy and go off-grid.

-Phil

 

[Yodrak]

I'll not debate that PG&E cited EVs as one of several examples of what might cause a power surge that can be damaging, but Duke most definitely did not point any finger at EVs or the associated charging equipment in the Mooresville garage fire case.

This is now the second utility too quick to point fingers at EVs (or their associated equipment)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6535" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PG&E blamed EVs for their old equipment failure, lumping them to together with 'illegal' indoor pot growers.

 

[zarwin]

AAAAAAAAAAND... here we go! The media coverage of this non-event continues to expand. In chronological order:

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/29687054/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/11/07/chevy-volt-possibly-involved-in-second-garage-fire-in-north-caro/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/11/06/chevy-volt-again-suspected-house-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.firehouse.com/news/top-headlines/nc-utility-issues-warning-about-electric-cars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.wbtv.com/story/15986760/duke-energy-puts-electric-charging-station-program-on-hold-after-house-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Investigators-133368533.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/07/2755701/officials-probe-role-of-car-charger.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1068362_should-chevy-volt-owners-worry-about-charging-fires-utility-says-yes-common-sense-says-no" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ev-related-fires-ignite-media-firestorm-gas-stations-burn-ignored1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/11/after-n-c-fire-duke-energy-advises-customers-to-suspend-use-of-electric-car-chargers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course some of them are pointing out the sensationalism and illogical reactions.

 

[padamson1]

AAAAAAAAAAND... here we go! The media coverage of this non-event continues to expand. In chronological order:

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/29687054/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/11/07/chevy-volt-possibly-involved-in-second-garage-fire-in-north-caro/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/11/06/chevy-volt-again-suspected-house-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.firehouse.com/news/top-headlines/nc-utility-issues-warning-about-electric-cars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wbtv.com/story/15986760/duke-energy-puts-electric-charging-station-program-on-hold-after-house-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Investigators-133368533.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/07/2755701/officials-probe-role-of-car-charger.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1068362_should-chevy-volt-owners-worry-about-charging-fires-utility-says-yes-common-sense-says-no" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ev-related-fires-ignite-media-firestorm-gas-stations-burn-ignored1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/11/after-n-c-fire-duke-energy-advises-customers-to-suspend-use-of-electric-car-chargers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course some of them are pointing out the sensationalism and illogical reactions.

Of particular interest is the http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/11/06/chevy-volt-again-suspected-house-fire. If you browse around their webpage you'll see 2 other anti-EV articles. I also like the FUD insertion that the Volt involved Connecticut re-ignited after the fire went out as further evidence that EV's are a danger to us all. In their view EV's are clearly the work of the Socialist Dictator Obama and his cronies, they are dangerous and could never exist his without wasting our tax dollars on them.

Given that they solve most of the problems conservatives complain about, I just don't get why conservative media isn't pushing EVs. Just because EV's are driven mostly by liberals doesn't mean they have to be dispelled immediately without any consideration. I mean there are conservatives who drive EV's...but NO conservative media outlets have said one positive thing about an EV.

 

[scottf200]

Of particular interest is the http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/11/06/chevy-volt-again-suspected-house-fire. If you browse around their webpage you'll see 2 other anti-EV articles. I also like the FUD insertion that the Volt involved Connecticut re-ignited after the fire went out as further evidence that EV's are a danger to us all. In their view EV's are clearly the work of the Socialist Dictator Obama and his cronies, they are dangerous and could never exist his without wasting our tax dollars on them.

That article is by this guy:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=Mark+Modica+saturn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Modica, a former Saturn dealer GM bondholder, has leveraged his financial loss at the hands of the government bailout into a blogging position at the National Legal and Policy Center, a conservative nonprofit that “promotes ethics in public life through research, investigation, education and legal action.” At the NLPC, Modica focuses on what he believes to be corruption surrounding the auto bailout, and has written a series of anti-GM posts that make TTAC look like a Detroit hometown newspaper.

Mark Modica was a business manager at a now-closed Saturn dealership in Chalfont, Pa., and then a steering-committee member of Main Street Bondholders, a coalition of small GM investors. He is an associate fellow at the National Legal and Policy Center.

 

[tps]

Mark Modica was a business manager at a now-closed Saturn dealership in Chalfont, Pa.

Hmm, Chalfont is about 10 mile west of where I live...

Second, He or other taxpayers are not subsidizing my (future) LEAF, the $7500 is a credit which I (or Nissan) claim against our tax liability. Just about everyone gets tax credits, probably Mr Modica does, but I don't claim to be subsidizing his tax credits. The problem is that he can't get this credit unless he buys an EV, so I'm guessing he doesn't want anyone else to get it, either.

 

[padamson1]

Second, He or other taxpayers are not subsidizing my (future) LEAF, the $7500 is a credit which I (or Nissan) claim against our tax liability. Just about everyone gets tax credits, probably Mr Modica does, but I don't claim to be subsidizing his tax credits. The problem is that he can't get this credit unless he buys an EV, so I'm guessing he doesn't want anyone else to get it, either.

You're preaching to the choir tps, unfortunately I haven't figured out how to denote sarcasm in my posts. I was just parroting Modica's opinion on EV's as per the article he wrote on the ill-advised subsidization (in his analysis) of the installation of chargers at Cracker Barrel. I am guessing he believes that giving tax-credits for EV's is subsidization, while giving tax credits to Oil Companies is simply promoting business.

 

[elyk]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-11/gm-volt-battery-fire-is-said-to-prompt-u-s-probe-into-electric-car-safety.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[thankyouOB]

Rush Limbaugh used the story to trash EVs Thursday.

 

[ttweed]

In their view EV's are clearly the work of the Socialist Dictator Obama and his cronies, they are dangerous and could never exist his without wasting our tax dollars on them.

Rush Limbaugh used the story to trash EVs Thursday.

My wife was channel-surfing her radio driving around yesterday, and happened upon the aforementioned rabid anti-EV rant by Rush Limbaugh. After slamming his points home (in his patented, ferocious, excoriating manner) that EVs are obviously a communist plot to steal our liberties and tax dollars, there was a station break, and my wife was amused to hear an ad come on for...wait for it...the Nissan Leaf! :lol:

TT

 

[thankyouOB]

from my rush observation yesterday over at the Consumer Reports item:
---
the ever-classy rush limbaugh did a complete hit-run- job on EV's today, jumping off on this story about a garage fire at the house of a Volt with a Siemens EVSE.
he called us owners arrogant and smug, and said it gave him great pleasure to report the below.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/15986760/duke" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... house-fire

On Tuesday, Duke Energy announced that it's asking its customers participating in an electric cars pilot program to stop using their home's electric charging station while the blaze is being investigated.

Yes, I listen to Rush to know what the enemy is doing. Usually have to change the station after 2 minutes. Today, I hung in there -- all the while driving my Leaf -- to hear his full screed, which included plentiful reading from the Consumer Reports blog.

In keeping with his coverage and apologias for spermin' Herman Cain, he called the woman reporter a reporterette.

---
Stay Classy Rush.
He also called the first Spermin' Herman Cain accuser Buy-a-Lick, not Rent-a-Lick.
Today he was denying that anyone ever said the Cain accusers were golddiggers.

 

[phxsmiley]

This is a pretty good article that discusses a Volt that caught on fire at an NHTSA facility.

http://jalopnik.com/5858730/are-electric-cars-safe

 

[DaveEV]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-11/gm-volt-battery-fire-is-said-to-prompt-u-s-probe-into-electric-car-safety.html

Interesting how this incident happened way back in May but only made it to the news today. Either way - it seems pretty clear - in this crash test the battery was punctured by metal. It took weeks to catch on fire. But the battery should probably have been removed from the car shortly after the crash test since puncturing a lithium battery is well known way to get it to light up. This is simply a procedural issue. The battery should be inspected shortly after a significant crash and appropriate actions taken!

 

[mwalsh]

This is a pretty good article that discusses a Volt that caught on fire at an NHTSA facility

Also on Business Week:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-11/gm-volt-fire-said-to-prompt-u-s-probe-of-lithium-batteries.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;