HD Video Test Drive & Review- Santa Monica, CA Press Event

[Nubo]

The story once again promises a $5000 California Tax credit. However, my understanding is that this only applies to the first 400 vehicles sold. By any stretch of the imagination, those first 400 vehicles are already spoken for. So, anyone reading the story who hasn't already reserved a Leaf, is being misled. Or, is there some chance that the tax credit will be extended?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Propane = fossil fuel = not zero emission. Not gonna happen.

Ah, but if it facilitates EV acceptance by removing an impediment for what could be relatively few days that heat is needed it would easily be a net positive. Plus, while fossil fuel combustion to generate electricity for EV propulsion may be a net improvement in terms of efficiency and carbon emissions, the same cannot be said of heating. LP is very clean burning, and 5 pounds would probably last a long time heating such a tiny space.

Besides if you think the Leaf is really zero emissions think again.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The story once again promises a $5000 California Tax credit. However, my understanding is that this only applies to the first 400 vehicles sold. By any stretch of the imagination, those first 400 vehicles are already spoken for. So, anyone reading the story who hasn't already reserved a Leaf, is being misled. Or, is there some chance that the tax credit will be extended?

Does the state have that kind of money?

 

[garygid]

There is apparently some chance of additional funding for the program for 2011. But, ...

 

[Boomer23]

The story once again promises a $5000 California Tax credit. However, my understanding is that this only applies to the first 400 vehicles sold. By any stretch of the imagination, those first 400 vehicles are already spoken for. So, anyone reading the story who hasn't already reserved a Leaf, is being misled. Or, is there some chance that the tax credit will be extended?

Does the state have that kind of money?

It looks like a funding plan for an additional $5 million for FY 2010-11 was approved on June 24.

Now, though the Funding Plan is approved, I have no idea whether the funds for 2010-11 have been allocated.

Here's a link to the CARB web site on funding plans.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aqip/fundplan/fundplan.htm

Notice and click on the item below Fiscal Year 2010-11 Funding Plan, the item identified as "NEW Approved AB 118 Air Quality Implementation Program Funding Plan For Fiscal Year 2010-11". On page 16 of the .pdf, you'll read that the CARB staff suggested and was apparently approved to add $5 million for FY 2010-11, bringing the total at the time of the proposal to $9.1 million available funds. This would provide rebates of $5,000 for "up to 1,600 ZEVs"

My opinion, of course, is that this number is still woefully inadequate.

The other significant thing I noticed was that there was included a proposal for a waiting list to be established for those who requested rebates but were not funded due to insufficient remaining funds, and a suggestion that additional funds might be available from the Energy Commission. This is reassuring to me because I was concerned about being caught in a "gap" between funding periods. A waiting list sounds fair.

Edit: Here is the California Energy Commission's 2010-11 Investment Plan. I haven't yet found the pot of money that CARB might tap for additional funds.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2010publications/CEC-600-2010-001/CEC-600-2010-001-CTD.PDF

I found it funny that CARB included the contingency that if no more than half of the 2009-10 funds have been requested by the first quarter of 2011, that they consider reallocating the funds to other programs. Assuming the roll-out plans of Nissan, Coda and others are close to realistic, CARB are dreaming if they think that all of the rebates won't be snapped up quickly.

 

[evnow]

Ah, but if it facilitates EV acceptance by removing an impediment for what could be relatively few days that heat is needed it would easily be a net positive. Plus, while fossil fuel combustion to generate electricity for EV propulsion may be a net improvement in terms of efficiency and carbon emissions, the same cannot be said of heating. LP is very clean burning, and 5 pounds would probably last a long time heating such a tiny space.

Absolutely - no arguments on this. But as I said, not going to happen ...

Besides if you think the Leaf is really zero emissions think again.

I think we have been through this in another thread - everyone apart from completely isolated Amzonian tribes - use fossil fuels. I'm talking in terms of ZEV designation.

 

[Quixotix]

In round numbers that's 400 wh/gallon. So 1 kilowatt would take about 2 1/2 gallons, or 20 lbs.

I think you got that right.

BUT

A normal air-conditioner at normal temperatures will move more watts of heat than the number of watts of electricity it uses. In fact, a good home window unit will move about 3 times as much heat as the electricity it consumes (per standard tests for determining "EER" values). This corresponds to an EER value of a little over 10.

That's right, 1 kilowatt of electricity will provide around 3 kilowatts of cooling -- and NO, this does not violate any laws of physics! In fact, this accounts for why electric heat pumps are more efficient than electric resistance heating. Of course, the actual ratio depends on temperature, humidity, etc.

Now, in one of the videos from the Japanese test drives, you can see that the A/C is using 1.5 KW. So, it is likely providing in the neighborhood of 4.5 KW of cooling. So, if you want to cool the car the same amount for 1/2 hour using ice, you will need around 45 pounds of ice. That's 4 1/2 of those big blocks that you can buy at the grocery store for your cooler.

And, this doesn't even address the big challenge of how to melt that much ice in 1/2 hour (without heating it with a flame or something which obviously defeats the purpose).

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

And, this doesn't even address the big challenge of how to melt that much ice in 1/2 hour (without heating it with a flame or something which obviously defeats the purpose).

The obvious solution there is rock salt. Instead of regenerative braking the braking force can be used to turn the drum, so the ice cream is ready by the time you arrive

Presumably commercial systems work with some sort of heat exchangers in the ice. The freezing process would be done on board with a heat pump (hopefully the same one that does the AC) so that part is efficient, but duly noted that as a "cooling energy" storage mechanism, pound for pound the battery holds more. On a dollar per BTU basis though ice is still interesting.

I wonder if there's something that has a higher heat of fusion density than water.

 

[mwalsh]

The story once again promises a $5000 California Tax credit. However, my understanding is that this only applies to the first 400 vehicles sold.

Wasn't it 800'ish with the current funding? That's what I recall.

 

[retrodog]

It's a bit weird to hear that a motorcycle is not a "vehicle". I'll be sure and get my Vectrix reclassified. Or maybe somebody doesn't consider $8000 to be "affordable". :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRXyDR64g8

Secondly, California really doesn't have any money for this. I see stories almost nightly about how they are not paying their debts they already have. What's up with that?

Other than those two items, it's a really good write-up and I enjoyed reading it.

My dealer is supposed to be getting a leaf in to play with in October. I'm really looking forward to that since I haven't even seen one in person yet.

 

[GreenEnergyNews]

Just finished this short edit that I thought you all would enjoy... this should confirm a 0-60 time of approx 10-seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TilvDQF-zb4&fmt=22