Help on which 2013 Leaf to buy, pretty please

[tigger]

Hi All! There are finally a few used leafs near where I live. YAY! Two in particular at the same dealer and I am trying to pick between them. At first I thought it was an easy call, but today we went and used the leafspy on each and I now I'm confused. They are both priced at $13,500.

Both are 2013 SV from the midwest (Iowa and Missouri)

Car #1
7,897 miles
Mfg Date: 6/2013
In Service Date 6/24/2013
Seemed like a reasonable deal for the price
Was my initial "winner"

57 estimated amp hours
402 L1/L2 charges
Did not get Hx value
----------------------------------------------------
Car #2
18,444 miles
Mfg Date: 4/2013
In Service Date 5/1/2013
Seemed a bit overpriced

62.56 estimated amp hours
94.4% Hx
584 L1/L2 charges
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The range guess-o-meter was pretty close on them (they were both about 1/2 charged)The leafspy manual I had was for a different version so I didn't realize the Hx was the approx remaining battery capacity until we got home, so I only have it for the 2nd car which we drove last.

So, from what I can tell, Car #2 is actually in better shape, battery-wise? The only thing I can think of to explain the lower amp hour on Car #1 is that they frequently topped it up after small trips (hence, the high number of charges for the low miles).

Would you recommend Car #2 based on the above info?

One other question, are there only 3 battery temperature sensors in leafspy pro? Only 3 showed up in the app.

Thanks so very much!!!
Tigger

 

[GerryAZ]

There are only 3 battery temperature sensors in 2013 and later Leafs. 2011 and 2012 Leafs have 4 sensors so Leaf Spy is designed to read all 4. Regarding the two cars, your theory that #1 was plugged in after short trips is likely. Unfortunately, it is not easy to say that the battery in #1 is significantly worse than the battery in #2 because the Battery Management System (BMS) which Nissan calls the Lithium Battery Controller (LBC) may not know the actual battery capacity. The battery in #1 may have never been deeply discharged to give the BMS a chance to calibrate itself to the battery. Your charge numbers do not show any QCs. Does either car have the quick charge port? The AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers typically improve a bit after a QC, but it is not clear how much, if any, permanent benefit that has. I also notice that the AHr and Hx numbers on the 2015 vary during the course of a drive/charge cycle. The numbers are lowest after charging, highest at 30% to 50% state of charge (SOC), and lower when nearly discharged. If I were looking at the two cars, I would pick the one that had the features, color, condition, etc. which best fit my needs and then use the difference in battery capacity and mileage to negotiate the price.

Good Luck,
Gerry

 

[RegGuheert]

Personally, I'd choose the one with 5.5 more amp-hours remaining. I find those additional amp-hours make a big difference, particularly in wintertime.

 

[tigger]

Thanks for the ideas/suggestions!

Both cars have the quick charge port, and each had been quick charged exactly once. Quick charging stations are few and far between here in the midwest (the entire state of Iowa doesn't have one). We did take car #2 and quick charge it (there is one station in the town where the dealer is) to see what the range changed to. We could try driving down and quick chargeing car #1 and see if that changes anything (sadly, it's an hour to get to the dealer).

I read some thread here (and couldn't re find it) about how the amp hours is sometimes not accurate (on the 2013+ models) under some circumstances but with some charging and discharging it will settle out. I don't recall it in the sense of never running the battery down, but that does make sense with the high charge / low mile ratio on car #1.

In general, I like the color of car #2 better, and the paint is in a bit better shape.

One other consideration. The rear tires on car #2 are completely smooth on the outsides (weird), but I've read these tires are cheap and wear poorly. My guess is the didn't rotate at all. We will need to replace those (I will argue for a discount).

The other slight worry is that car #2 didn't have *any* entries at all in the carfax for maintenance. Not that a lot of maintenance is needed, but that means no battery checks. Both cars are certified used, so one would (probably naively) think that if there were later battery problems you could argue that any warning should have been discovered in the certification process. We plan on having the battery checks done annually.

We are generally still leaning towards car #2 unless we should be concerned about the carfax.

Thanks again!
Tigger

 

[RegGuheert]

One other consideration. The rear tires on car #2 are completely smooth on the outsides (weird), but I've read these tires are cheap and wear poorly. My guess is the didn't rotate at all.

I'm willing to guess that those tires were on the front the entire time and were rotated to the rears only during the certification process. Like many here, I believe the LEAF recommended tire pressure is too low for the weight of the vehicle, resulting on excess wear on the outside of the front tires. I recommend running between 40 and 44 psi to achieve more even wear as well as slightly improved range.

We will need to replace those (I will argue for a discount).

The tires are cheap (the cheapest carried by Costco here for the LEAF), but they are quite efficient. It appears we will get about 40,000 miles out of ours. That compares with over 100,000 miles we are expecting to get out of the latest Michelins we put on our Honda Civic Hybrid. I'll have to contrast that against the negative range impact when I get ready to replace them.

 

[billg]

So, from what I can tell, Car #2 is actually in better shape, battery-wise? The only thing I can think of to explain the lower amp hour on Car #1 is that they frequently topped it up after small trips (hence, the high number of charges for the low miles).

On my 2015 S model, when I use the charge timer, it records each charging session twice - once for when I first connect the cable and it communicates with the car and immediately stops, and a second time when it actually starts charging later on. Leaf Spy reports 580 L1&L2 charges in the 425 days I've had the car, and I charge every 1-2 days, but nearly always use the timer. I estimate my actual charges to be about 320.

The previous owner of Car #1 may have used the charge timer, and the actual number of charging sessions may be much less. You really don't know.

 

[tigger]

I bought car #2! Thanks for the help and advice.

 

[kippy62]

What did you end up paying for the car?

 

[tigger]

We paid $12,750 ... which is a bit high ... but it's in very good shape and we just wanted to be done with the process. We are reasonably happy with the overall transaction, and are totally excited about the car.

 

[aarond12]

We paid $12,750 ... which is a bit high ... but it's in very good shape and we just wanted to be done with the process. We are reasonably happy with the overall transaction, and are totally excited about the car.

Congratulations and welcome to the family. Keep us updated about how well the car handles the Iowa winters.